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How to Exist

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Re: How to Exist

#201

Post by fwipsy »

wbadart wrote: post #173
Schiendelman wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read that serfs weren't expected to work more than a few hours a day until industrial automation really took hold. I wish I had the link, but it made sense - and then labor laws were a reaction to those expectations, not solving a long running problem.

My favorite recent read on the topic was from Brett Devereaux: https://acoup.blog/2025/08/22/collections-life-work-death-an... TL;DR: whether farming takes all your waking hours depends on the size of your lands and household

I thought of the same series, but that's not the tl;dr I would have chosen at all. I would have gone to part 4e where I found this quote near the end:

> We should also note that these women work an enormous amount. We estimated, you will recall, working hours for our male peasants on the order of 2,500 to 3,500 working hours per year, massively more than modern full-time employment (40 hours per week is ~2000, typically around 1,750 hours after sick time, vacation, holidays and such). By contrast our peasant women are working in this model 3,760 hours per year, significantly more than their fathers, husbands and brothers and wildly more than modern workers.

It's nice to think that our ancestors didn't have to work as hard, because it justifies our own desire for more leisure time. IMO that desire is justified anyways; but premodern subsistence farming/any sort of self-supported lifestyle is incredibly labor-intensive compared to modern agriculture, regardless of whether you're a serf or a freeholder.

Re: How to Exist

#202

Post by augment_me »

ip26 wrote: post #47
augment_me wrote: post #29

In "Four thousand weeks" by Oliver Burkeman, he breaks down that this obsession with action stems to the industrial revolution when it was decided that workers should sell their time for a living. Before that we used to have task-oriented jobs, like milking the cows, which you cant do more than once in a while, or harvest the fields, which you can't do until it's ripe. In general humans are more evolved to this kind…

I’m not sure where this idea came from that farming was idle and only industry required constant work. Every hundred-year old book I’ve ever read that features farming includes themes of how the farmer’s work never ends and runs from dawn to dusk.

As some other commenters pointed out, the comment (and the book) are not making claims about work hours. Seeing it from the perspective of "dawk to dusk" with our, now time-based perspective is the wrong interpretation of it because it imposes our view of work and time on a task-based life.

You would work dawn til dusk, but you would: milk the cows at 06 AM, have a walk/chat/game with friends, bring the animals out, have breakfast, have a nap, refill water for animals, do some weeding, go have lunch with the other workers, etc. Then in the evening you bring the animals back in. So while you had a "15 hour workday" on the clock, your day is not consisting of actions and improvements without an end that can be done indefinitely, but by tasks that arise gradually at certain moments. All the time between the tasks is "time off" in the modern interpretation, and then you have a completely different view of work, because there is no pressure to produce at any point.

Re: How to Exist

#203

Post by sublinear »

djaro wrote: post #145
mock-possum wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can one possibly have ‘too much self-awareness?’ under what circumstances is it beneficial to have less awareness of oneself?

Too much self-awareness can cause you to become blind to the experiential part of life. Like, when you're at a party, not having fun, but instead thinking: "I am drinking alcohol to lower my social inhibitions at the cost of worse sleep and long-term health benefits, because I think in the long run the possible connections made here and the subsequent rise in social status will be worth it"

That's not self-awareness. You have it all backwards.

Awareness is about the senses, as well as having the experience to predict what will happen next, and plan accordingly. Awareness is 100% about balancing the sensing and the planning.

The sensing is important, but not for its own sake. If you overcorrect in that direction, it's just self-indulgence and hedonism.

Re: How to Exist

#204

Post by jagadaga »

crent wrote: post #130
jagadaga wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, instead of solving problems, you want them to solve the problem of not thinking about solving problems?

I sense the snark but no. Just fully experience your current moment as it changes without inserting yourself.

IMO, a more logical approach is to let your thoughts flow and simply observe them instead of trying to control them (that never worked for me.)

Re: How to Exist

#205

Post by crent »

jagadaga wrote: post #204
crent wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense the snark but no. Just fully experience your current moment as it changes without inserting yourself.

IMO, a more logical approach is to let your thoughts flow and simply observe them instead of trying to control them (that never worked for me.)

Yeah that’s exactly what I mean by not inserting yourself. When you engage with the thoughts, feelings, and sensations, your awareness narrows and you focus on them. As your focus deepens, it becomes amplified and will continue. When you notice this happening, go back to a more neutral observer mindset and let it flow past.

It’s a bit tricky because sometimes you get caught focusing on being the observer and letting sensations pass. It’s a more subtle thought but as you practice those subtle sensations become more apparent. It’s a useful sensation in the beginning to let the more “coarse” sensations and feelings go but eventually you need to let that go too.

Re: How to Exist

#206

Post by backend_dev82 »

I kept hearing about meditation. And at one point I tried it. With one app that was given to me for free through my employer's benefits.

It had a counter of your current uninterrupted streak. (Meditating every day) I kept at it. First for 5 minutes a day. Soon for 10m a day. Then 20m

Then twice a day at 20m.

Then semi-guided, and in the end unguided (only a beep at the end).

I never felt anything from it. Truly. Nada. Not better, or worse or calmer or more present or really really nothing.

Yes while meditating I would catch my mind drift, I would come back to the breathing and continue the count.

After this has been on for over 6 months and my counter of my streak was nearing 200. I decided to skip a day, only to see if I would get back to it if my counter was back at 0.

Result?

I never meditated again. Could it be that did it wrong? Possibly.

Could it be that it just doesn't work on me? Possibly and this is the one explanation I'm going with

The whole thing is just...nothing

Re: How to Exist

#207

Post by worldthruword »

jqbd wrote: post #59

Your brain is a prediction machine. I am afraid doing nothing is inhibiting that function. I think it's perfectly healthy to not want to be a vegetable. Maybe using that life force to focus on the things you're avoiding by rumination and escapism is good enough, and we don't have to be cosplaying the dead to get there?

Your brain is also self-reflective. It can from the inside change its expectations. Reaching for the metaphor of evolved prediction machine implies you can't train in any other way, but you can. Let's say society collectively decides (or capitalism) that we need liesure living just like Europeans do, then that will be the system. Why are we following on Elon's footsteps of compressing 1000 years of progress into 100 years. No asteriod is coming to destroy us, so no rush.

Re: How to Exist

#208

Post by [deleted] »

backend_dev82 wrote: post #206

I kept hearing about meditation. And at one point I tried it. With one app that was given to me for free through my employer's benefits. It had a counter of your current uninterrupted streak. (Meditating every day) I kept at it. First for 5 minutes a day. Soon for 10m a day. Then 20m Then twice a day at 20m. Then semi-guided, and in the end unguided (only a beep at the end). I never felt anything from it. Truly. Nada…

[deleted]

Re: How to Exist

#209

Post by jagadaga »

crent wrote: post #205
jagadaga wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, a more logical approach is to let your thoughts flow and simply observe them instead of trying to control them (that never worked for me.)

Yeah that’s exactly what I mean by not inserting yourself. When you engage with the thoughts, feelings, and sensations, your awareness narrows and you focus on them. As your focus deepens, it becomes amplified and will continue. When you notice this happening, go back to a more neutral observer mindset and let it flow past. It’s a bit tricky because sometimes you get caught focusing on being the observer and letting…

I don't think it's possible to be conscious and have no thoughts at the same time. Otherwise, you wouldn't even remember the experience. I think we first need to define what we mean by "thoughts".

Re: How to Exist

#210

Post by shimman »

nradov wrote: post #149
DrewADesign wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure where this idea came from that shit in old books is inherently rational or they would have any frame of reference to compare it to the modern world. Everybody’s conception of the worst is based on their own experience. I currently work in a trade. My sixty-something boss constantly makes side comments about a life of backbreaking work, for more hours and in the midst of more hardship than any of the kids…

We should all listen to guys like your boss. Circumstances have changed a bit but their beliefs are generally directionally correct and they have some great lessons to teach.

That we should act like "self made men" when in reality it took entire multiple lifetimes worth of effort where people in power were finally allowed to create a society where a common trades worker could enjoy an upper middle class lifestyle?

Hard pass, I'd rather talk to his union rep.

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