AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
121–130 of 317 posts
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
some of the problems ya'llk encountering would be solved with dumber and slower local models.
Some of the problems I solved after a few attempts where the llm couldn't solve the issue was by dumbing down the prompts.. ...
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#123In my LLM coding experience, I’ve had this happen numerous times, for instance when building a card game.
The LLM does a great job for a while, but adding special event cards becomes impossible because it imported a standard 52 card deck library instead of having a flexible data model with card objects.
I suppose this is knowable and you could tell an LLM to do this from the beginning. It's just that when you view making a game (or any piece of software) as just a throwaway thing and don't start with deep thought about the implementation as an experienced engineer might, you don't think about this.
I think part of the issue with AI-generated writing, code, or anything else, is that it robs us of the thinking that used to be baked into the process of making stuff.
For my game, if I had to build it from scratch, I surely would've sketched out the kind of data model it requires to not waste my time.
I do think some of this stuff is overblown though. It's true that LLMs don't create production-grade stuff, but not all software needs to be scalable, fast, and easily maintainable.
This might be required for infrastructure or apps designed to (hopefully eventually) be used by millions.
But it's not true for a minor utility, like if I want to build a meal-planning app for my family. I don't care if the app is the fastest it can be or if the data model could eventually support a feature to configure dietary preferences and allergies or to plan the meals for Google's tens of thousands of employees.
There was a viral article a few years ago around how software could be like a home-cooked meal. And AI enables exactly that. A home-cooked meal doesn't require culinary perfection, but to feed the family and, maybe more importantly, be a gift of labor to the other person.
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#124Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it's baffling. I can't relate to these statements at all. What are people doing? Surely the smart people of HN would have been able to figure this out a long time ago. I also don't find these people in real life. Even the most junior developers I know are able to navigate this without creating this supposed mess.
Its a bit unkind to talk like this - the obvious and equally unproductive response is to question if you are really as good as you think you are. Are those junior developers not making a mess, or do you lack the insight to see it?
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#126The test is simple: have we seen great new products or improvements in the products we use over the past 12,24,36 months? The only great new product I’ve used is my LLM of choice, and those labs seem to be hiring more humans than ever. Maybe it’s true that Claude only just got good enough and that 12 months from now our day to day lives will be way better thanks to LLM-driven product improvements/breakthroughs. My be…
One exciting development that LLMs have recently started is automated vulnerability discovery. For instance, Chrome solved more bugs in June than over the past two years:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49120097
Similarly, the latest Apple security update and the June Android Security Bulletin fixes an insane number of vulnerabilities.
Of course, many of these vulnerabilities are caused by using unsafe languages (C/C++). But LLMs also help porting such code to Rust or other safe languages, because it is the type of transformation that LLMs are pretty good at (clearly defined problem, not many opportunities to go wild).
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#127I'm about to throw away multiple months of LLM generated code for one of my side projects. I was really careful writing design specs and it wasn't even a new code base the LLM worked on, but still after several months of AI changes I feel my code degraded more and more into a subtle mess. Hard to explain, each individual change looked good and logical and on the surface the codebase looks fine, but looking at the who…
The experiment was: given existing Experience section of Senior Software Engineer CV (manually and carefully written), write 2-4 lines of high pitch About [me].
gpt-sol-xhigh just could not do it, making a complete AI slop mess.
It became substantially better when I asked to get a sample of real Senior/Principal engineers CVs, that it would be able to connect with meaningful online presence/contributions of their authors, and draw ideas from that.
Nevertheless, the remaining issues were critical, with their classes spanning:
- word for word repetition;
- tautology (phrases mapping to the same semantic entity);
- category mistakes (combining apples with oranges);
- faulty composition of generalised and concrete terms.
Before throwing it away I decided to give it a try and asked for strict prompt following, setting low logical errors threshold, and eventually providing a formal proof that it complied.
It took spaCy, doing NER and dependency parsing; then I suggested adding stanza for constituency parsing.
After slapping together the artefacts of analysis and thinking a bit, it produced great phrase (to my taste).
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Then when I asked to apply the framework and improve bullet points in some experience block, it did 2 of 4 well, then miserably broke down; I’m not sure if it’s harness issue (codex) or fundamental model restriction.
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So no, without substantial investment in steering, SOTA AI doesn’t perform even remotely close to a human, in complex reasoning.
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
This mirrors my experience too, long term use starts showing incoherence that is impossible to see in isolation. The funny thing with LLM’s is that with a sufficient sized code base they pretty much will loop forever if you tell them to find and fix issues, making new ones as they fix old ones.
You have to tell them explicitly not to touch working stuff, and run tests.
I just hope my bank doesn’t go Claude code all the way any time soon.
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#129I'm about to throw away multiple months of LLM generated code for one of my side projects. I was really careful writing design specs and it wasn't even a new code base the LLM worked on, but still after several months of AI changes I feel my code degraded more and more into a subtle mess. Hard to explain, each individual change looked good and logical and on the surface the codebase looks fine, but looking at the who…
I am more and more just using LLM assistance over fully agentic programming. Even when writing detailed instructions, guardrails, and whatnot, a lot of modern models (e.g. Opus) are optimized to work autonomously. But over time they just make a mess out of code bases, often because they don't truly understand good design, but will just make changes until they reaches their objective, leaving a mess for a human to cle…
Re: AI doesn't generate working products, that's still your job
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Popped over to HackerNews, read two comment sections and the top comments in both articles were users saying the same thing: "AI can't write code! The whole thing will come crumbling down any minute! Just you wait!" I've never seen this community like this. Are these people cooked? We are years into this and they haven't been able to figure it out? They are going to continue to tell people using these tools successfu…
> Are these people cooked? Yes. This is a weird kind of denial about the LLMs that cost nation-state levels of energy doing human nerd work. They aren't perfect at all, but there's very little reason to be anything but a prompt engineer and proof reader anymore.