Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math • Hacker News Board

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#51

Post by yummyfajitas » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 8:36 PM UTC

raleec wrote: post #48

yummyfajitas wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that whatever trait drags the US average performance down probably lives in the student body rather than the school system. If so, there isn't a lot we can do about it.

Quite the pessimist! So you're going w/ B) A subtle entreaty to focus the brunt of America's educational efforts on specific ethnic subgroups so that the entire nation can have better results. The upside is that it's possible that whatever procedural improvements are made will probably improve all of the student body, so it's a win-win! Unless, of course, you're also positing that these sub-groups can't be taught??

So you're going w/ B) A subtle entreaty to focus the brunt of America's educational efforts on specific ethnic subgroups...

Unless you can demonstrate that this is cost effective, I'm certainly not.

And yes, I do generally posit that most educational interventions are ineffective. If you disagree, please point to one which can reliably and scalably increase the score of any group by an amount proportional to the black/white (or white/asian) gap.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#52

Post by raleec » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 10:22 PM UTC

pflats wrote: post #50

raleec wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. Americans don't usually call Spaniards and Portuguese "Hispanic" any more then they call a Blond haired, blue eyed person born in America, but who's parents were born in South Africa "African American", which is to say rarely and usually in a comedic or anecdotal manner. When he's referring to "Hispanics and African Americans" he is trying to refer to specific "racial" (insomuch as the concept exist…

Yes, and nfg and I are trying to point out the downsides of using the term "Hispanic" when you mean "Latin American". The terms aren't interchangeable, even though people might try to treat them as such. It might be an academic distinction to you, but it isn't to everybody. On the flip side of your example, while teaching in an inner city, I broke up a fight that started because a kid called a Haitian "African Americ…

You and I are agreeing while we explain this state of affairs to nfg, which is why I've been upvoting you.

It's far from an academic distinction to me, and that fight could have just as easily occurred if an African American had been called a Haitian, or any number of similar errors...

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#53

Post by raleec » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 10:36 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #51

raleec wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the pessimist! So you're going w/ B) A subtle entreaty to focus the brunt of America's educational efforts on specific ethnic subgroups so that the entire nation can have better results. The upside is that it's possible that whatever procedural improvements are made will probably improve all of the student body, so it's a win-win! Unless, of course, you're also positing that these sub-groups can't be taught??

So you're going w/ B) A subtle entreaty to focus the brunt of America's educational efforts on specific ethnic subgroups... Unless you can demonstrate that this is cost effective, I'm certainly not. And yes, I do generally posit that most educational interventions are ineffective. If you disagree, please point to one which can reliably and scalably increase the score of any group by an amount proportional to the blac…

Ok....

So are you saying that the current methods of education can't be improved?

I'm not referring to an intervention, which, like dieting, will not be useful in the long term. I'm giving you credit for hitting upon the idea that education itself can be altered in a manner which is not only far more effective, but evenly distributed improvements across all tested populations.

That's a great idea, and we all look forward to hearing of your progress in this endeavor.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#54

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 11:45 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #41

dspeyer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO and Putnum are comparing the best of each nation. This article is comparing the median of each nation. I wouldn't expect a strong correlation there. Both matter.

Putnam is just a US competition. IMO is international. And while the US does well, we haven't won since the mid-90s. In that same period of time China has won it like 15 times. And the last time the US won the ACM Programming Contest is probably equally as long. And there we typically will only place one or two schools in the top 10 at best (although it's not a collection of our best programmers -- it is by school).

[deleted]

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#55

Post by jinushaun » Thu, Dec 13, 2012, 4:33 PM UTC

Singapore's system sounds like the most logical system. College doesn't work for everyone, and there has to be a way for these people to succeed in society instead of penalising them or pushing them to drop out of high school. Too bad it could never be implemented here in the US because it pretty much sets up discrete social classes.