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Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

firerescue1.com

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Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#42

Arsonists drawn to firefighting field. People with mental health issues becoming therapists. People with eating disorders becoming dietitians. I'm trying to figure out what pathology I'm hiding as a software engineer.

You're secretly a robot.

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be an expensive way to drum up business.

Expensive to just buy a box of suitable nails and just sprinkle them around while they're already driving places?

... And then drive under the threat that their own tires will get punctured as well.

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#44

This is a completely useless article. Is 100 a lot? The article never even hints at what percentage of firefighters that is, let alone total arsonists. Should we be outraged? Are firefighters more likely to be arsonists? It says "in North America", so I assume that's across US and Canada. There are 1.2 million firefighters in the US, and about 150k in Canada, so let's call it 1.3 million. 100 out of 1.3 million is st…

> There are 349 million people in the US, so the number of arsonists is 0.0001% of the general population. The number of firefighters that are arsonists (100/65,795) is 0.0015%, so I suppose it's slightly higher that the general population.

You comparing arsonists/pop with firefighter-arsonists/arsonists. That’s the wrong comparison. You should be comparing arsonists/pop with firefighter-arsonists/firefighters. Or firefighters/pop with firefighter-arsonists/arsonists.

(On top of that, mixing numbers from different sources can be problematic. For example, how are repeat convictions treated in the different sources? Who counts as a firefighter?)

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#45
post #42

Arsonists drawn to firefighting field. People with mental health issues becoming therapists. People with eating disorders becoming dietitians. I'm trying to figure out what pathology I'm hiding as a software engineer.

You're secretly a robot.

Secretly?

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#46

Arsonists drawn to firefighting field. People with mental health issues becoming therapists. People with eating disorders becoming dietitians. I'm trying to figure out what pathology I'm hiding as a software engineer.

Creating problems that can only be solved by writing software! It's a subset of the 'expert user PEBCAK' category — a term any long-term IT help desk professional will recognize immediately, even if they've never encountered it before.

Experts create the worst problems and when experts bring the help desk those worst problems, sometimes the reply must be "You caused it, you fix it; or, we can restore your device to an IT-supported state after you backup whatever data you don't want to lose". So, what problems have you created that require you to engineer solutions for them? Did you create those problems intentionally? A lot of us do so in our 'home lab environments', and that's what they're for. But doing so intentionally at work — not accidentally — is called 'making work for yourself so you get paid by someone to fix problems you created', and that is a perfect match for 'firefighter arsonist'.

(None of this is accusation, this is just analogy-building; both 'software' and 'you' are swappably generics for any profession and any engineer, respectively.)

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#47

Key information: There’s roughly 100 firefighter arsonists convicted every year in North America and all of them are serial arsonists, which means three or more fires,” Nordskog told CBC. According to Nordskog, firefighter arsonists tend to be young males who recently joined the fire service, who may become bored, desire recognition and struggle with anger or frustration. All things considered, it’s probably a smalle…

> it’s probably a smaller percentage vs. doctors doing un-doctor things There's roughly 200 doctors convicted every year in the U.S. alone of criminal 'patient abuse or neglect', for data compiled between 1988 and 2026 [1]. While I'd prefer to cite the 'patient abuse' figure since 'patient harmer' is the most equivalent behavior to 'firefighter arsonist' (both cause the problem they treat), I think it's worth remembe…

> have a slim but non-zero chance of deciding to create problems that give them professional satisfaction to solve.

Ahh right, my homelab.

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#48
One wonders if the key issue here is 'not enough live fire drills', which while a charming pun I do mean seriously: should every firefighter be guaranteed a certain number of live 'build it and burn it' exercises per year as a condition of employment?

If they did so in concert with building code inspectors beforehand to try out various new things, had the 'what were the circumstances leading to this fire?' fire drill conditions sealed in an envelope, and won a pizza party if the arson investigators guessed incorrectly on whether those circumstances were or were not arson — then I think that firefighters might have much less cause for arson. Certainly having done IT for fucking ever, I can come up with some extraordinarily evil things to do, but my industry has 'red teams' and 'onsite penetration tests' because we understand the need for this. TREX apparently conducts 1-2 burns per year as a big serious training event, which is nice — but that's so few and so many fires are so boring and there probably aren't enough TREX burns to meet demand for live fire exercises. And, yes, I wish my own hometown's firefighters would build a structure every month and then burn it to the ground and then try to defeat the arson investigators. This can only reduce the chances of firefighter arson, and no amount of 'firing blanks' exercises are going to have a serious impact on this issue. And, introducing a competitive aspect creates a professional 'hero' outcome for the firefighters who manage to defeat the arson inspectors — they're not only now a hero among their fire industry peers, they're also a hero for the lives that will be saved by future arson investigations solved by their own fire drill arson. Sure, this isn't 'hot neighbor' adulation as many U.S. young men might dream of — but it's peer adulation, and I suspect their dreams would have little difficulty adapting.

[1] https://www.waprescribedfire.org/trex

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#49

Arsonists drawn to firefighting field. People with mental health issues becoming therapists. People with eating disorders becoming dietitians. I'm trying to figure out what pathology I'm hiding as a software engineer.

For fun, I'll say. You're trying to apply reason to emotion, not realising emotion drives everything. Consequently you think it's acceptable to force everyone to accept (your) superior reasoning, for their own good, whether they want it or not. Think Vulcan.

Re: Firefighter arson a long-standing issue – expert

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s probably a smaller percentage vs. doctors doing un-doctor things There's roughly 200 doctors convicted every year in the U.S. alone of criminal 'patient abuse or neglect', for data compiled between 1988 and 2026 [1]. While I'd prefer to cite the 'patient abuse' figure since 'patient harmer' is the most equivalent behavior to 'firefighter arsonist' (both cause the problem they treat), I think it's worth remembe…

> have a slim but non-zero chance of deciding to create problems that give them professional satisfaction to solve. Ahh right, my homelab.

This made me actually lol. I feel your pain!
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