Should children have the right to commit assisted suicide?
Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
41–50 of 102 posts
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
"In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said." https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detr...
Dutch study (Steensma 2013) followed 127 children who were referred to the Gender Identity clinic in Amsterdam under the age of 12. The study looked to see if these children were still gender dysphoric by the time they reached adolescence at age fifteen. 37% of these children had persisted. However 64% of children had either desisted or were no longer traceable. Since there is only one Gender Identity clinic for chil…
The "desistance" measured in that study is between going to the clinic as a child (before any treatment would be offered) and the time they would go to receive medical treatment from the clinic. Most sources I've seen suggest that change in gender identity is more common in younger children and drops off around the time puberty would start, which is the earliest that medical treatments are offered. The meaning of "desistance" being discussed here is regret after receiving medical treatment - basicly, the Type I error (false positive) rate of the treatment decision. These aren't really comparable.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#43The pattern I've observed repeated around issues of transgender health care is "ordinary levels of scientific uncertainty used to argue for the most extreme possible restrictions." Puberty blockers have long been used to treat precocious puberty, the main problems of which are social difficulty from going through puberty earlier than one's peers and a shorter adult height. The opponents of transgender healthcare have…
> Puberty blockers have long been used to treat precocious puberty
That seems orthogonal, yes? Delaying puberty until the body gets into the usual range of growth is arguably improving something that was otherwise going off the rails. Delaying puberty from normal onset until after the body has otherwise stopped growing is a different use case, different intended goal. It does not seem unreasonable to have different expectations.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#44This thread will likely have extensive hate on a very small portion of the population. A reminder that actual people have been turned into a cultural wedge issue, their lives put in danger due to the vitriol the culture war issue has stirred. If you have known a person who has transitioned, you'd likely see someone happier after being able to transition. Laws targeting trans people won't stop an actual criminal from…
> culture war issue
I'm 100% with Sarah McBride on this. The blame for this culture war is arguably as much because of how pro-trans folks handled it as it is resistance from conservatives. It did not need to happen this way. There will be progress in the future but it definitely got set back a ways over the last few years. Unfortunately with collateral damage for the rest of the LGBT community.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#45> Campaigners who brought the legal action had argued the safeguards in place were inadequate and raised concerns about the long-term physical and psychological effects on young people. What exactly are the safeguards for real? It’s literally irreversible damage when you mess up with hormones while on puberty. I am conflicted myself, but I think I err on the side of caution and think that avoiding messing with your h…
> It’s literally irreversible damage when you mess up with hormones while on puberty. This is equally true when you don't intervene. The children being recruited for this study would otherwise be forced to undergo physical changes that cause them severe psychological distress and would need to be surgically corrected in adulthood.
> This is equally true when you don't intervene.
The effects of puberty blockers can be reversed much more than the effects of puberty.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
~1% regret rate. https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detr...
Dutch study (Steensma 2013) followed 127 children who were referred to the Gender Identity clinic in Amsterdam under the age of 12. The study looked to see if these children were still gender dysphoric by the time they reached adolescence at age fifteen. 37% of these children had persisted. However 64% of children had either desisted or were no longer traceable. Since there is only one Gender Identity clinic for chil…
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#47The pattern I've observed repeated around issues of transgender health care is "ordinary levels of scientific uncertainty used to argue for the most extreme possible restrictions." Puberty blockers have long been used to treat precocious puberty, the main problems of which are social difficulty from going through puberty earlier than one's peers and a shorter adult height. The opponents of transgender healthcare have…
> Puberty blockers have long been used to treat precocious puberty That seems orthogonal, yes? Delaying puberty until the body gets into the usual range of growth is arguably improving something that was otherwise going off the rails. Delaying puberty from normal onset until after the body has otherwise stopped growing is a different use case, different intended goal. It does not seem unreasonable to have different e…
Puberty blockers for transgender and potentially transgender teens aren't meant to be taken all the way through to adulthood, if that's what you mean by "otherwise stopped growing." Ideally they're taken just long enough for them to get counseling and come to a decision, a couple years at max.
Apart from that, "different use case, different intended goal" is cause for what I'd call "ordinary levels of scientific uncertainty." A 13-year-old just starting puberty is not so different from an 8-year-old just starting puberty to justify denying a medication to one by law while still prescribing it to the other without concern.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree with this, puberty blockers should be used sparingly and certainly should not be taken until adulthood. Can you imagine starting puberty at 18? Trans children deserve to mature at the same time as their peers.
> certainly should not be taken until adulthood When do you think puberty happens?
They meant trans people should be allowed hormone replacement therapy before legal adulthood seemingly.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have to be an adult to get a tattoo. Because by then, you're expected to be able to make a well-informed descision and be able to think of possible coonsequences. Why on earth would a child be allowed to decide on life-changing or even life-shattering bodily harm?
If you are 11 and wait 7 years to get a tattoo, your tattoo will look just as good or better. If you are 11 and wait 7 years to transition, you will suffer irreversible physical and psychological damage. You will have missed formative social experiences. You will have to get expensive, painful surgeries to partially correct what was done to you.
IMO the issue is that we're still seeing the world in black and white. A trans person can't transform into the opposite sex, that's biologically impossible. They exist up in a middle ground, and they should be recognized and accepted as they are so they don't feel the need to transition and detransition to fulfill the binary standard.
Trying to make-believe that people can convert to the opposite sex, and even go back, is doing more psychological damage than accepting our differences, not to speak of the invasive/destructive treatments on an otherwise healthy body.
Re: Puberty blockers trial can start recruiting children
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are 11 and wait 7 years to get a tattoo, your tattoo will look just as good or better. If you are 11 and wait 7 years to transition, you will suffer irreversible physical and psychological damage. You will have missed formative social experiences. You will have to get expensive, painful surgeries to partially correct what was done to you.
IMO the issue is that we're still seeing the world in black and white. A trans person can't transform into the opposite sex, that's biologically impossible. They exist up in a middle ground, and they should be recognized and accepted as they are so they don't feel the need to transition and detransition to fulfill the binary standard. Trying to make-believe that people can convert to the opposite sex, and even go bac…
If you think that a modal person who transitions does so because they don't understand what biological changes can be achieved* and/or because society doesn't accept them "as they are" enough, you are hopelessly confused about this entire topic.
*Note that a disagreement about whether currently available medical procedures constitute a "sex change" is almost always a dispute of semantics and not of fact. A trans woman who describes herself as having "changed her sex" is almost never claiming she can give birth.