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DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

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Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#231

Post by applicative »

criley2 wrote: post #229
applicative wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Xi's speech was as paranoid as Dario Amodei about the possibility of Chinese AI achieving something at the level of say Mythos. If you seriously believe such a thing will be on Hugging Face I really don't know what to say.

There is already something on HuggingFace at the level of Mythos. It's called Kimi K3 and it's running laps around Opus5, Fable5, and Sol56 at cybersecurity. It's so good that the US government is rushing to ban all Chinese models as fast as they can.

Fine, you believe Anthropic was lying about Mythos. In fact no view of the matter is needed to formulate the proposition above. It is clear China will soon have a model with the powers imputed to Mythos but which you deny of actual Mythos. It is a trial to deal with this level of ideological blindness; 'ideology has no outside'. If someone says 'when they get Mythos...', declare the possibility of Mythos to be the real lie. But it is quite possible and will be coming in months.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#233

Post by gpugreg »

kzrdude wrote: post #159
gpugreg wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, all mentions of ZDR have silently been removed from the OpenCode Go page today.

Thanks, any update here is important. I use them because of good data policies.. I still find this today: > The plan is designed primarily for international users and provides stable global access. Your data will not be used for model training.

dax (coauthor) recently tweeted https://xcancel.com/thdxr/status/2083178051052155182

> because we added the new deepseek which we do not yet have a ZDR with we cannot blanket say we offer ZDR

I wonder how the website can make the statement that data will not be used for training.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#234

Post by anon373839 »

applicative wrote: post #221
anon373839 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reuters was reporting that rumor. And then Xi made a public appearance at a conference in Shanghai where he said the opposite of that rumor.

No in that very speech Xi stated explicitly what amounted to: 'of course when we get a Mythos, it will be a state secret'. In fact the overwhelming weight of AI use in China, the chatgpt so to say, is Bytedance's AI which is absolutely closed and uniquely opaque. The press treatment of these matters was no good and they are slowly walking it back, e.g. NYT yesterday finally actually read the speech.

Do you have a source for that? The NYT article does not quote Xi making that statement, and I can't find a source for that. In fact, Xi delivered veiled criticism of the security posturing the US has done:

> We should put in place laws and regulations, technological monitoring, early warning and emergency response systems in order to strengthen the line of security, prevent abuses and malicious use, and ensure that AI is always under human control. In the meantime, we should jointly oppose overstretching the national security concept in the field of AI and placing one country’s security over that of others.

There was a blog post by a state-linked broadcaster cited in the NYT piece:

> “China supports openness, but this does not mean it advocates for the unconditional proliferation of all capabilities,” the blog said.

The article also quoted an American journalist:

> “If these models do reach those dangerous capabilities, they are not going to let it be a free-for-all in terms of releasing them," Mr. Sheehan said.

But a distinction has to be drawn between real dangers (which many people believe LLMs have not actually shown, to date) versus "dangers" hyped up marketing purposes or domestic regulatory-capture motives. Presumably the Chinese government is less interested in the latter.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#235

Post by applicative »

anon373839 wrote: post #234
applicative wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No in that very speech Xi stated explicitly what amounted to: 'of course when we get a Mythos, it will be a state secret'. In fact the overwhelming weight of AI use in China, the chatgpt so to say, is Bytedance's AI which is absolutely closed and uniquely opaque. The press treatment of these matters was no good and they are slowly walking it back, e.g. NYT yesterday finally actually read the speech.

Do you have a source for that? The NYT article does not quote Xi making that statement, and I can't find a source for that. In fact, Xi delivered veiled criticism of the security posturing the US has done: > We should put in place laws and regulations, technological monitoring, early warning and emergency response systems in order to strengthen the line of security, prevent abuses and malicious use, and ensure that A…

"Dangers" may indeed be hyped up for marketing purposes or domestic regulatory-capture motives. But as Xi stated, they will become real.

It is just a question of being unaffected by the motives of the speakers, which is what adults learn to do.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#236

Post by zozbot234 »

applicative wrote: post #231
criley2 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already something on HuggingFace at the level of Mythos. It's called Kimi K3 and it's running laps around Opus5, Fable5, and Sol56 at cybersecurity. It's so good that the US government is rushing to ban all Chinese models as fast as they can.

Fine, you believe Anthropic was lying about Mythos. In fact no view of the matter is needed to formulate the proposition above. It is clear China will soon have a model with the powers imputed to Mythos but which you deny of actual Mythos. It is a trial to deal with this level of ideological blindness; 'ideology has no outside'. If someone says 'when they get Mythos...', declare the possibility of Mythos to be the re…

Reading between the lines, it's fairly clear that Mythos Preview only got its reported results in offensive cyber thanks to a highly specialized harness and humongous amounts of test-time compute. We also don't know what kind of post-training/fine-tuning it got on cyber, Anthropic only stated that it wasn't specifically trained for cyber-offense but that leaves a lot of scope for training on other related things. Overall, the Mythos story is a lot less interesting than most people might like to claim - but note that this doesn't require any actual lying.

The interest around K3 is a lot more defensible because we actually know what the architecture looks like, how much effort it takes to get it to run, and what kinds of results it gets on cyber evaluations. And no, it's nowhere near "dangerous" enough to where people might honestly want to ban it for real safety reasons. It does a good enough job at fixing cyber issues, but that's hardly a safety concern.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#237

Post by re-thc »

ifwinterco wrote: post #190
nickandbro wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you post the link to the leaked interview? From what I understand he has been pretty tight lipped for a guy who has a larger stake worth more in his company than Dario does in Anthropic.

The culture is different, if you tried pulling any of the shit Sam and Dario do on a daily basis in China you'd get your wings clipped pretty quickly, much smarter to keep your head down as much as possible. And maybe that's not a bad thing tbh because look at the state of the US right now

> The culture is different

That's partly. I'd say the other part is it's an open secret they have "illegal" Nvidia GPUs and other "secrets". There's a common understanding not talk about these things because it'd hurt everyone collectively.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#238

Post by anon373839 »

applicative wrote: post #235
anon373839 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that? The NYT article does not quote Xi making that statement, and I can't find a source for that. In fact, Xi delivered veiled criticism of the security posturing the US has done: > We should put in place laws and regulations, technological monitoring, early warning and emergency response systems in order to strengthen the line of security, prevent abuses and malicious use, and ensure that A…

"Dangers" may indeed be hyped up for marketing purposes or domestic regulatory-capture motives. But as Xi stated, they will become real. It is just a question of being unaffected by the motives of the speakers, which is what adults learn to do.

> But as Xi stated, they will become real.

But the speech doesn't say that? I'm looking at the full text. For example:

> We should take seriously the various types of inherent and secondary risks that AI may trigger.

The risk portion of the speech is focused more on application-level risks than model capabilities. Which is a much more sensible regulatory framing than what Silicon Valley has proposed.

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#239

Post by zozbot234 »

Tepix wrote: post #217
ra wrote: post #49

What's the best way to run this on a 64GB M2 Pro?

DS4Flash has 284B weights. 64GB? No go.

The native weights are 4-bit for the sparse experts, and they quantize to ~80GB with limited degradation in real-world performance. That's a viable target for 64GB with SSD streaming, though it will be slower than keeping the whole thing in RAM (especially on a M2-class machine with its slower storage).

Re: DeepSeek-V4-Flash Update

#240

Post by mcbuilder »

lionkor wrote: post #173
dakolli wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Aside from what squidbeak already said, I have to say the quality varies a lot, and goes above the "good" threshold enough times that using these models is worth the time and effort. Compared to something like GPT-5.4 to GPT-5.6 Codex models, they cost 50-100x less (fifty to one hundred TIMES less), and can do most annoying or well-specified tasks just as well. The main difference is that deepseek is bad at prose, an…

I love deepseek's (Pro) writing. I feel it's more nuanced and natural.
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