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The session you cannot take with you

earendil.com

121–130 of 238 posts

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#121
post #10

This is an important article. I hadn’t realized it was already getting this bad. Like a frog enjoying a nice warm bath ... > Most people do not switch their operating system or phone provider every week either. But even if you do not utilize that freedom, it matters because it changes the relationship you have with the provider and the provider has with you. This is why it’s important to utilize your freedoms. Do NOT…

And yet people still go with Sign in with Google as the only login method.

It’s funny how the tides shift. I remember the more dominant online position in the early 2010s being “I don’t want to create yet-another-account for your website. Just let me sign in with my google account”. I’m with you though

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#122
post #105

This is an important article. I hadn’t realized it was already getting this bad. Like a frog enjoying a nice warm bath ... > Most people do not switch their operating system or phone provider every week either. But even if you do not utilize that freedom, it matters because it changes the relationship you have with the provider and the provider has with you. This is why it’s important to utilize your freedoms. Do NOT…

People will keep hiding reasoning because it allows prompt injection https://arxiv.org/pdf/2603.12277 , in addition to facilitating distillation (you don't pay the full cost of RL)

Or they could store the reading traces and validate the user hasn’t edited them server-side? They could sign reasoning traces so they can’t be counterfeited?

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#123

This is an important article. I hadn’t realized it was already getting this bad. Like a frog enjoying a nice warm bath ... > Most people do not switch their operating system or phone provider every week either. But even if you do not utilize that freedom, it matters because it changes the relationship you have with the provider and the provider has with you. This is why it’s important to utilize your freedoms. Do NOT…

> This is why it’s important to utilize your freedoms. Do NOT let yourself get locked into a particular ecosystem.

I wish people would apply this same logic to governments.

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#125
The state of Agent APIs is bad. completions API (supported indefinitely) but does not support reasoning. OpenAI's reasoning API started out well, but is moving in the direction as described well in the article. Anthropic's messages API is odd. It includes changes such as the recently introduced system messages that can be injected mid turn, but are not supported in all models (sonnet 5). So you are left with a pretty fragmented state. For coding agents, the practical move is to focus on getting it right with one API - eg reasoning, and let the router/provider handle the conversion for you.

Perhaps, there is value in having the de-facto API not be the Reasoning API from OpenAI but something from a neutral party?

Maybe a well defined open standard that facades over these APIs that can gain adoption. For that to happen, the party championing the API needs to have some reasonable traffic capture - OpenRouter perhaps, or a group of such routers coming together? While it wont solve the encrypted payload from the frontier lab problem, it will at least be a backstop in these APIs just becoming a back and forth of encrypted payloads over time.

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#126
post #16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because with the alternative they'll require you to "confirm your e-mail" instead of just picking a password

I'm actually more annoyed by having to pick passwords than confirming my email.

Use a password manager to autogenerate them?

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that weird. Building a modern accounts system is a lot of work and people don't like creating new accounts. So it's the path of least resistance for developers and users.

It's not even that it's hard to build a modern account system. It's that if you put your site behind a private / custom account system, and you post a link to it on HN (for example), everyone and their mother complains that it's requiring an email address and password. But if you put the same site behind a Google auth, most people wouldn't think twice to click the button.

I worked on the Google account system for a few years. I'd say it's a lot of work to beat it. Not necessarily "hard" for a team with the right skills, but certainly a lot of sweat, blood and tears.

A modern account system is expected to have, in rough implementation order: email confirmations, password strength checks, password reset emails, forgot password flows (=advanced ID verification as otherwise this becomes a backdoor into accounts), user profiles (+avatar image upload/recompression/hosting), usernames independent of email addresses along with ability to change usernames later, password brute forcing blockers, bulk signup prevention (=solid bot detection), abuse controls (can easily become a team of people), 2FA (SMS), 2FA (authenticator apps), 2FA (backup codes), 2FA (voice calls), 2FA (passkeys), 2FA: recovery when both factors are lost, enterprise SSO integration (SAML), enterprise SSO (Active Directory), fast global signout support (much harder than it looks), cookie theft mitigations, heuristic online login risk analysis to catch cases where an attacker knows the right password via phishing, support for signing the user in to multiple domains, audit logging so users can review their own sign-in history, age verification and restriction support, and possibly support for being logged in to multiple accounts in a single browser session.

Oh, that all has to be HA, and the account system is the keys to the kingdom so the security requirements are the strictest of any part of your system.

You might say we don't need all of that, but expectations rise over time. Maybe 20 years ago you could get away with a simple account system and an automatic forgot password flow that just assumes the user still has access to their email. Maybe today you still can write a simple system, if you don't expect to have many users and are willing to implicitly delegate identity to webmail providers anyway (the moment you assume the user has access to a secure email account you're basically doing Sign In With Google anyway for 90% of users). But if you roll your own accounts, and then the user gets phished and someone logs in from an obviously suspicious place with the right password, they won't say "yes that's my fault" anymore, they'll say "Google could block that log in, why didn't you?" or maybe "Why didn't you support 2FA? It's your fault".

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#128

This is exactly why Pi will win. It lets you hot swap models when one is struggling or straight up refusing the task. And since it works with any sub outside Claude Code, you can use it to try different models on OpenCode Go sub or even OpenRouter. As far as subagent prompts and results being obfuscated, I just let Pi spawn new agents. Using skills and extensions, I’ve essentially built a software factory using Pi an…

How did you decide on Pi over Opencode? What you see as the “edge” Pi has?

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#129
post #48
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve actually started ignoring services where that’s the only login possibility. Sorry even if your platform is the greatest thing ever, but I’ll find a different tool. I’ve read one too many stories about Google (or Apple!) closing the entire account over some bullshit unnecessary reason like “fraudulent” gift card issues or whatever. I’m certain the affected people would’ve preferred to just pay back the amount in…

It's the only reason I want to replace Tailscale with something else or look into self-host when have a bit of time during my vacation. They only allow login through a third party, which is a big no for me.

I created my own AWS Cognito userpool just for tailscale. I recall the webfinger redirect was frustrating to get right but I refused to use Google/Apple as a gatekeeper to my own network so I had all the motivation to get it working.

Re: The session you cannot take with you

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry about the nitpicking, but s/monopoly/duopoly/

not nitpicking; huge difference between 0 and 1 competitor

Huge difference while both are competing. But it’s a huge risk in a market with such high cost of entering. If either divests then it rapidly degrades.
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