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Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

bbc.com

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Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#61

Post by deepsummer »

emsign wrote: post #36
deepsummer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storage of energy in the dimensions required for weeks with almost no wind is an unsolved problem. Right now, we can't store enough to make it through a single night without using fossil fuels. Most countries don't even have the capacity to store the energy for a single hour.

Geothermal and storage is worth investing in, investing in nuclear is not. NPPs are simply too expensive and you won't find investors unless you heavily subsidize it with tax money. Only compnies willing to invest in NPPs are those with virtually free money: the handful of AI big tech giants.

How can you be sure of that before even having a practical and proven solution for the required scale of storage?

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#62

Post by expedition32 »

exploderate wrote: post #55
Luc wrote: post #43

Of course a 1960's design isn't adapted to current weather conditions. That doesn't mean the whole technology is useless, like so many commenters imply. Any new build can and will include cooling adapted to hotter conditions.

It's not matter of "can", it's a matter of "how much does it cost?" and "who pays for that?".

Precisely why the Netherlands does not have nuclear power plants. Cheap coal. Cheap oil. Cheap gas. And now cheap wind and solar.

They just absolutely cannot math the math which leaves ideology and this ain't France.

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#63

Post by petre »

wongarsu wrote: post #29
moffkalast wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it economically viable to run though? Natural draft towers or direct body of water cooling is used almost universally since it doesn't take any extra power. A large chunk of the powerplant's output would be running heat pump compressors to stop itself from exploding.

Fully closed loop is probably not viable. But I suspect that's not the extreme GP might have meant. If for the sake or discussion we simplify cooling to four options: 1: just passing river water through a heat exchanger for cooling 2: ingesting river water, using it for cooling, then passing it through a cooling tower before returning it to the river 3: pass the water output from the cooling tower directly back in th…

5. scrap 1..4 and build a gas cooled reactor instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTR-PM

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#64

Post by RandomLensman »

deepsummer wrote: post #59
RandomLensman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we can store fossil fuels for weeks of demand, we can store the required energy in chemical form, no? Germany has huge natural gas storage, for ezample.

If you mean hydrogen, this video explains the issues better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE

Doesn't need to be hydrogen - plenty of possible substances that could be used as storage (might not even need to be gaseous for some applications).

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#65

Post by dudefeliciano »

gib444 wrote: post #40
paganel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is politically motivated on this subject, and that's a good thing, because this is a political decision by default, where the "political" is comprised of is, the voting citizens. We can't let decisions like these be taken by unelected technocrats alone.

I'm not filled with joy about my chav ("redneck") neighbours weighing in on nuclear vs solar and climate change and national and international energy markets and power distribution... I don't have a clue either. Don't ask for my vote on how to power a country. Take my taxes and use them to listen to experts

Plot twist, the experts are lobbyists and they convince our politicians to start fracking and massively increase the use of "clean coal"

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#66

Post by andor »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #51
paganel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is politically motivated on this subject, and that's a good thing, because this is a political decision by default, where the "political" is comprised of is, the voting citizens. We can't let decisions like these be taken by unelected technocrats alone.

>and that's a good thing, because this is a political decision by default, Why is it a good thing that everyone and their brother seeks to apply state violence to micromanage what should be a fairly arcane technical issue? >We can't let decisions like these be taken by unelected technocrats alone. Do you feel the same way about topics where your opinion differs substantially from the local majority?

Very few things are purely technical decisions. In this case, it’s about centralized vs. distributed electricity generation (or freedom vs. dependence if you want to state it that way). One of these options makes it much easier for the billionaire class to continue extracting money out of the people.

Edit: I don’t understand how you get from „political decision“ to „state violence“. Politics are at play at all levels of civilization where actors have different goals, from your dinner table and your company Slack to democratic institutions.

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#67

Post by roenxi »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #47
Luc wrote: post #43

Of course a 1960's design isn't adapted to current weather conditions. That doesn't mean the whole technology is useless, like so many commenters imply. Any new build can and will include cooling adapted to hotter conditions.

[flagged]

You're probably going to struggle to come up with a motive for that behaviour. It is much more likely that they simply aren't very thoughtful. Complex webs of deception in a public argument are certainly possible, but it generally relies on some group having a clear financial incentive to misdirect. That doesn't exist in the nuclear debate.

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#68

Post by roenxi »

andor wrote: post #66
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that's a good thing, because this is a political decision by default, Why is it a good thing that everyone and their brother seeks to apply state violence to micromanage what should be a fairly arcane technical issue? >We can't let decisions like these be taken by unelected technocrats alone. Do you feel the same way about topics where your opinion differs substantially from the local majority?

Very few things are purely technical decisions. In this case, it’s about centralized vs. distributed electricity generation (or freedom vs. dependence if you want to state it that way). One of these options makes it much easier for the billionaire class to continue extracting money out of the people. Edit: I don’t understand how you get from „political decision“ to „state violence“. Politics are at play at all levels…

> One of these options makes it much easier for the billionaire class to continue extracting money out of the people.

I almost hesitate to ask, do you think that is the centralised or decentralised option?

And, more directly, that is a bad theory. The billionaires will make money either way. It doesn't make a lot of difference to them as a class. They'll have an inclination to the cheaper form of energy because more energy -> more economy -> more money for them.

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#69

Post by cinntaile »

seszett wrote: post #46
cinntaile wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People arguing for one alternative over the other are usually politically motivated. I feel like you are doing the same. Sometimes nuclear is a good fit, sometimes renewables is a good fit, sometimes fossil fuels are a good fit. Most of the time a mix is the best fit. It depends on what you are optimizing for and what is geographically, (geo)politically and economically possible. All these systems are then built usin…

> sometimes fossil fuels are a good fit There is simply NO safe level of fossil fuel use.

I don't know what you mean with "no safe level of fossil fuel use". It doesn't mean anything without contextualizing that statement.

Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant

#70

Post by xinayder »

vrganj wrote: post #2

This is happening all across Europe right now - Romania, France too. https://www.euronews.com/business/2026/07/13/france-shuts-do... https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungarys-paks-nuclea... We keep having folks here argue that nuclear, not renewables are the path to take to get rid of fossil fuels. I have strong doubts - it feels like that doesn't account for the sad realities of climate change.

High temperatures also severely affect solar panel efficiency.
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