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Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

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Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#391
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And AlphaGo Zero .. probably the first real-world deployment of a self-improving system that beat humans.

I think that credit might go to IBM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD-Gammon

It was a huge advancement but it did not beat the world champion. AlphaGo is noted for being a self-learning system that became better than all humans. Chess engines had long been there but were not self-learning before AlphaZero.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#392
I don’t want to be a hater, but somehow i still keep throwing vacuum roboters away and prefer the manual machine. It somehow always ends up worrying me more than helping. Crashing, charging putting away, putting things away for it to work (peeping). There are a lot of small things that come to these things that have evolved over the last 100 of years.

When i think about humanoids and household. I have so much particular ways of how I want my household to be done. I find it really hard to believe you can make it act that way. I struggled to teach humans how I want it. So I ended up doing everything myself again.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#393
post #185
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can even afford 20K you're in the top 10% of the US population. It's not a very big market, and even selling to that market is hard. Probably only 10% of that 10% will actually buy, and all of a sudden you're selling to 1%. Selling to businesses is much easier, 99% of businesses can afford 200K if it replaces 3 x 70K humans.

Your napkin math only shows that the market is identical. There's about 35m businesses operating in the US. So by selling to 10% of those you sell the exact same number of robots...

The difference is that some of those businesses might buy a lot more than just one robot. As many as they currently have employees doing robot work for a human salary.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#394
post #218

I've kind of given up on humanoid robotics, because of how bad the actuators are. There has been no innovation in robotic actuators since Honda's Asimo. There's just no way that someone wants a 80kg wobbling tin can in their home or workplace. My bet is that the final robotic revolution will use genetically modified human/animal bodies with replaced brains. You'll have to stretch your ethics a bit, but if you grow a…

I could not disagree more with the claim about no improvement in robotic actuators. The torque density and price of actuators has fallen dramatically since Ben Katz's MIT work on mini cheetah. The actuators on the Unitree G1 based on that work are powerful for their size and near quasi-direct-drive. The motors on the BD E-Atlas are completely passively cooled and appear to have really good torque density. Actuators h…

G1 is a small robot designed for agility, and can't do much real work. That's why it uses lower reduction actuators with low sustained torques, and it'll overheat easily in continuous work. Many of the larger robots (Optimus, Figure, BD Atlas) use higher reduction actuators with strain waves or planetary roller screws. They're designed for higher sustained torques, but are also less agile and less safe for humans to be around. They're also quite heavy (BD Atlas is 90kg), and still can't match human performance.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#395
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to pay me this much to let a human inside my house to do that.

Where I live, you typically share house cleaners with your neighbors or family members. My parents, aunt/uncle, grandparents, and one of my neighbors uses the same house cleaner. If she stole from me, I’d immediately tell my family and she would lose basically all of her clients. That makes it easier for me to trust her. (It works similarly in NYC apartment buildings - a single cleaner often services many people in t…

My understanding from parents and friends who have a cleaning service...it pretty much depends on a certain baseline level of cleanliness. Most cleaning services don't (and likely wouldn't be able to provide) basic "pick up around the house". They will come into a house that is mostly picked up and sweep, dust, mop, vacuum, etc. but they won't come into a toddler house and put everything away.

I'm sure that there are services that do this, but I very much doubt they are the $400 per month services you are talking about. Robots may not be able to do that level of task at all right now, but they will get there.

And of course, that's not even thinking about all the cleaning tasks that would be avoided in between the every-other-week visits.

Having my surfaces be somewhat cleaner every two weeks is worth ~nothing to me. It's by far the easiest and least unpleasant part of cleaning a house. Having a robot that will pick up the detritus of everyday life and put it away, pick up and clean dishes, etc. and do so every single day would be worth an enormous amount of money.

I have no idea how long it will take for robots to get to that point, but whichever company cracks that level first is going to make a lot of money.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#396
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person in my 50's with a parent in her 80's, this would be incredibly useful right now. And I've got many, many friends in similar situations.

Fucking hell, hiring a robot to care after an elderly parent. Now that's some disturbing shit.

"Disturbing" to be able to economically provide cooking, cleaning, laundry, yard maintenance, snow shoveling, etc., for an elderly parent who lives alone (by her choice)? Why is that disturbing?

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#397
post #4

Can anyone that works on this technology provide an honest assessment of where this technology actually stands? How much instrumentation is actually required, what the interaction quality is, how much trouble do humanoids have with in the wild daily tasks like turning doorknobs, recovering from falls, avoiding knocking into things, etc.

Unfortunately I can't go into too much depth but I've seen many first hand evaluations of these robots- I'm a robot technician with first hand experience working on these robots. There is an incredible amount of effort and money going into training on many different tasks, including a few you mentioned and many more. They're getting pretty good, but don't expect to see this generation of bots doing their thing in public for a while, if ever. Generally they're pretty safe but they're a long way from safe enough to be sold to individuals in a household environment. I expect to see an incredible amount of progress in the next couple years.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#398

These robots look slow and not very fluid in their motions, but LLMs like ChatGPT also looked very dumb initially. If progress is as fast as LLMs , this could have massive applications in a few years.

Look at robotics demonstrations on YouTube from one or two years ago, and compare that to where we are today. It seems reasonable to me that general purpose robotics may be able to outmaneuver your average human in a few years. At least one robot has surpassed what I could do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xha2TJ_1C6Q

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#399
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, you typically share house cleaners with your neighbors or family members. My parents, aunt/uncle, grandparents, and one of my neighbors uses the same house cleaner. If she stole from me, I’d immediately tell my family and she would lose basically all of her clients. That makes it easier for me to trust her. (It works similarly in NYC apartment buildings - a single cleaner often services many people in t…

My understanding from parents and friends who have a cleaning service...it pretty much depends on a certain baseline level of cleanliness. Most cleaning services don't (and likely wouldn't be able to provide) basic "pick up around the house". They will come into a house that is mostly picked up and sweep, dust, mop, vacuum, etc. but they won't come into a toddler house and put everything away. I'm sure that there are…

Totally agree with you on ‘putting stuff away’. Much of the mental effort is trying to organize stuff so it takes space efficiently, and be easy to find it when I need it. If a robot put it away, I don’t really care where. I can just ask it where it is.

Re: Gemini Robotics 2 brings whole body intelligence to robots

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think OP's "Why do people ask employees this stuff" question implies you _shouldn't_ ask, but rather wonders why people even ask when you're obviously not going to get an answer (and if you do, it'll be a non-answer filtered through PR/HR/MR/etc).

Well they posted on a public forum and it wasn't a rude question or anything, in fact it's one of the hottest topics in the zeitgeist and here we have one of the people near the center of it. Right on the HN frontpage near this post: "Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year" NOT asking them the "taboo" questions is the dumb thing to do

Cogs in the machine do not have the decision power nor even the visibility over how those decisions are made.

What are you going to do? Only work for tiny little companies with very limited local reach? What if you have the ability and the desire to work on global projects, even if you don't get to make the big decisions?

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