Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math • Hacker News Board

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#31

Post by dspeyer » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 5:17 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #4

This is purely anecdotal, but it seems like kids are held back in the US primarily by the curriculum. I immigrated to the United States having grown up in a couple of commonwealth countries and I was shocked to go from a school where I had been learning basic trigonometry to a school where basic algebraic principles weren't even taught until the next year. So whenever I see a discussion about all the social issues th…

The curriculum didn't occur in a vacuum, though. It's based on what the leaders thought the students could handle. No one wants a curriculum where a lot of students fail.

Part of that is heterogeneous grouping. The curriculum is based on what the bottom 10% can handle, and everyone else must go at their pace lest there be elitism.

There's probably other factors too, though. All students could probably move faster if culture as a whole were encouraging it.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#32

Post by jere » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 5:22 PM UTC

Here's what I learned from this article. In order to outperform the US in education, be a city-state with a higher per capita GDP than the US and only a few million citizens.

Or be Finland.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#33

Post by chris_mahan » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 5:29 PM UTC

dspeyer wrote: post #28

pcl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you continue to extend your time scale, immigrants make up 100% of the US population. (Assuming that "immigrant" != "first-generation immigrant, of course, which seems to be in line with your comment.)

That's true of all non-african countries.

It's probably true of most African countries, with the possible exception of Kenya and the surrounding countries.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#34

Post by Mz » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 5:31 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #24

In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) dragging the US average down. European Americans do very well when compared to European nations, and Asian Americans do well when compared to Asian nations (a bit worse in math, better in reading). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-a…

For me, that intuitively fits with other stats I have seen. IIRC, the U.S. was being reported as number six in the world for average income. But when broken down by ethnicity, white Americans placed number one. African Americans placed something like 49th. Hispanic Americans were a few notches lower than African Americans.

(I hesitate to post this out of concern it sounds "racist". I am sure the reasons for this pattern are complex.)

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#35

Post by nfg » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 5:41 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #24

In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) dragging the US average down. European Americans do very well when compared to European nations, and Asian Americans do well when compared to Asian nations (a bit worse in math, better in reading). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-a…

> In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia)

There aren't many Hispanics in Europe...?

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#36

Post by josephlord » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 5:49 PM UTC

jsdalton wrote: post #19

tdfx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest cultural problem we have is the constant search and glorification of the prodigy/wonderkid and the consequent obsession with "natural talent", as if everyone has some special innate skill that they're destined to discover and be the best at. If you don't understand calculus the first time around, it doesn't mean you're not a "math person", it means you need to sit down and RTFM for a few more hour…

Great points. My background growing up was similar to yours. If it makes you feel better, in raising my daughter I'm trying to do things a better way. I do believe my daughter is gifted, but I spend little if any time praising for that. Instead, I talk about how things like hard word, perseverance, and practice are the key ingredients of success, and I point out and discuss examples wherever I can. I'll let you know…

> I'll let you know in about 10 years or so whether it made a difference. :)

To do that you need twins to treat differently. Every experiment needs a control group ;)

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#37

Post by Nursie » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 6:01 PM UTC

nfg wrote: post #35

yummyfajitas wrote: post #24

In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) dragging the US average down. European Americans do very well when compared to European nations, and Asian Americans do well when compared to Asian nations (a bit worse in math, better in reading). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-a…

> In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) There aren't many Hispanics in Europe...?

Errr.... no?

I've never heard it used to refer to someone from actually from Spain.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#38

Post by raleec » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 6:03 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #24

In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) dragging the US average down. European Americans do very well when compared to European nations, and Asian Americans do well when compared to Asian nations (a bit worse in math, better in reading). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-a…

Just out of curiosity, what is the relevance of this observation?

Are you saying that nations are irrelevant, and ethnicity is what really matters? Is this a subtle entreaty to focus the brunt of America's educational efforts on specific ethnic subgroups so that the entire nation can have better results?

Instead of blindly downvoting, I really am interested in the point of this statement.

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#39

Post by raleec » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 6:05 PM UTC

nfg wrote: post #35

yummyfajitas wrote: post #24

In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) dragging the US average down. European Americans do very well when compared to European nations, and Asian Americans do well when compared to Asian nations (a bit worse in math, better in reading). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-a…

> In previous years these results have been driven primarily by African Americans and Hispanics (groups which don't exist to any significant degree in Europe or Asia) There aren't many Hispanics in Europe...?

Oddly enough, there aren't that many (statistically significant) African Americans anywhere outside of America either... :)

Re: Here’s why other countries beat the U.S. in reading and math

#40

Post by bjhoops1 » Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

flatline wrote: post #7

TallGuyShort wrote: post #4

This is purely anecdotal, but it seems like kids are held back in the US primarily by the curriculum. I immigrated to the United States having grown up in a couple of commonwealth countries and I was shocked to go from a school where I had been learning basic trigonometry to a school where basic algebraic principles weren't even taught until the next year. So whenever I see a discussion about all the social issues th…

We have a subculture of anti-intellectualism and cottling our kids that is perhaps a little less prominent in the countries that out-perform us? Fitting in socially is also heavily emphasized in the US system, so early advancement for high performers is generally frowned upon.

The anti-intellectualism in this country is infuriating!

And it reaches to the highest levels, with creationist congressman and even anti-vaccination nuts like Dan Brown.

Only in America do people scoff at the work of science and academicians and put air quotes around the word "expert".