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Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

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Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#111

Post by baalimago »

gbnwl wrote: post #92
baalimago wrote: post #85

We swapped an internal system from gpt-5-mini to gpt-5.6-luna and saw no benefit but 4x cost. Sufficed to say: we swapped back to gpt-5-mini.

Experienced similar between 5.4-mini vs 5.6-luna in our own pipelines but after spending some time on prompt optimization and testing out various reasoning effort levels 5.6-luna was well worth it. Did you just replace model selection while keeping everything else in place or spend some time on evaling with newer prompts etc?

No we kept prompts as is, just swapped model. The prompt is already quite optimized for the task. How would updating it possibly make a more intelligent model spend less tokens than a less intelligent model? Care to elaborate?

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#112

Post by heisgone »

ismailmaj wrote: post #54
preommr wrote: post #14

> Starting today, GPT‑5.6 Luna, our fastest and most affordable model, will cost 80% less, I don't have the words. I genuinely thought we were in a stage where we were plateauing and going in for 5-10% improvements over months. Seeing spikes like this makes me question about where the floor really is.

it's 80% less cost, not 80% in efficiency gains, could be that Luna was overpriced to begin with, we don't have much info on the models themselves. Assuming the efficiency gains are real, I feel like something has to give, maybe worse quality due to aggressive quantization/kv cache compression?

Let's suppose each models was subsidized at 70%, so that we only pay 30% of the cost. They would loose much more money per token on the more powerful models. It's in their interest to encourage the use of the less expensive models. Let's say they increase Luna subsidies at 90%. They would still "save" relative to the use of the more expensive models.

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#113

Post by 3836293648 »

heaney-555 wrote: post #76
gentlewater wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is gonna put Sonnet 5 in a really awkward spot.

Luna is comparable to Haiku, not Sonnet.

Anthropic basically downgraded all their tiers when they released Mythos, no nah, Sonnet 5 is the successor to Haiku 4.x

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#114

Post by paytonjjones »

preommr wrote: post #14

> Starting today, GPT‑5.6 Luna, our fastest and most affordable model, will cost 80% less, I don't have the words. I genuinely thought we were in a stage where we were plateauing and going in for 5-10% improvements over months. Seeing spikes like this makes me question about where the floor really is.

According to https://deepswe.datacurve.ai/, Luna at Max at it's previous cost was comparable in both performance and cost to Sol at High.

With an 80% reduction in cost that becomes a ridiculous outlier in efficiency.

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#115

Post by jrflo »

jpadkins wrote: post #86
preommr wrote: post #14

> Starting today, GPT‑5.6 Luna, our fastest and most affordable model, will cost 80% less, I don't have the words. I genuinely thought we were in a stage where we were plateauing and going in for 5-10% improvements over months. Seeing spikes like this makes me question about where the floor really is.

When model intelligence reliably hits 90%-95% of current day knowledge worker tasks, they are going to burn those weight to silicon and we will see another 10X improvement in price/performance frontier. The dynamic GPU clusters will be used for the 5% of tasks, and pushing out the frontier. Also there will be a set of knowledge tasks that are not done today (because they are too difficult for most knowledge workers),…

Burning the weights into silicon would be many orders of magnitude increase, not just 10x. It's kind of crazy that this hockey stick the AI hype bros talk about seems more and more every day like it might be real

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#116

Post by re-thc »

jpadkins wrote: post #86
preommr wrote: post #14

> Starting today, GPT‑5.6 Luna, our fastest and most affordable model, will cost 80% less, I don't have the words. I genuinely thought we were in a stage where we were plateauing and going in for 5-10% improvements over months. Seeing spikes like this makes me question about where the floor really is.

When model intelligence reliably hits 90%-95% of current day knowledge worker tasks, they are going to burn those weight to silicon and we will see another 10X improvement in price/performance frontier. The dynamic GPU clusters will be used for the 5% of tasks, and pushing out the frontier. Also there will be a set of knowledge tasks that are not done today (because they are too difficult for most knowledge workers),…

> When model intelligence reliably hits 90%-95% of current day knowledge worker tasks, they are going to burn those weight to silicon

Google is already working on a similar idea but more "flexible".

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#117

Post by throw2ih020 »

GodelNumbering wrote: post #44

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half." -John Wanamaker This applies even more strongly to model choosing. I know for a fact that majority of my work doesn't require a very strong model, but separating the trivial and non-trivial tasks is a famously hard problem (if at all decidable).

> separating the trivial and non-trivial tasks is a famously hard problem (if at all decidable).

Famously, this is also a problem for human coders in sprint planning.

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#118

Post by nateb2022 »

tosh wrote: post #95
heaney-555 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luna is meant to compete with Haiku. What tasks are you seeing it equal Opus on?

luna is way better than haiku 4.5

I use Luna a lot (over 1T tokens since it came out) and I'd rank Luna (high/xhigh) on par with Sonnet 5, without hesitation.

Re: Advancing the price-performance frontier with GPT‑5.6

#120

Post by dannyw »

Imanari wrote: post #110
bob1029 wrote: post #35

This feels like the dialup->broadband transition to me. I was already a huge proponent of Luna for things like deep research. Being able to run 5x more for the same cost is simply bananas. We are already running 10 parallel agents for hypothesis generation. I cannot imagine 50. The statistics become much more interesting & powerful when you can run so many samples of the exact same prompt+model without breaking the b…

How do you run 'deep research'?

Deep research is basically a LLM with web search, and a "work really hard" goal-orientated prompt, and some output formatting suggestions.
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