Live data from Hacker News

Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

nydailynews.com

1–10 of 27 posts

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#2
I think this just further confuses end users and is another reason we should get rid of tipping culture.

Tips are currently serving several purposes in users' minds:

1. earned for great service

2. to make up for lower base pay (tipped min wage is lower in many US states)

3. to help employees who they feel aren't making enough

Now reasons #2 and #3 are no longer true because driers are now fairly (IMHO) compensated through the guaranteed wage. How many users actually know about this?

Sure more money is flowing into the drivers' pockets, but doesn't this just continue to muddle the usage of tips and ultimately cost the consumer more?

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#3

I think this just further confuses end users and is another reason we should get rid of tipping culture. Tips are currently serving several purposes in users' minds: 1. earned for great service 2. to make up for lower base pay (tipped min wage is lower in many US states) 3. to help employees who they feel aren't making enough Now reasons #2 and #3 are no longer true because driers are now fairly (IMHO) compensated th…

Yeah, the change was to force the apps to include a tip option before the food arrived, which users interpret as the "don't spit in my food" option. Of _course_ tips went up when the apps were forced to make this change.

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#4
US tipping culture is insane:

1. If "tips" in the US are "compulsory" because customers should make up for the poor wage the delivery people get paid, why is there still a compulsion for tipping now as the wages have been increased (and presumably is "fair")?

2. And if the wages are "fair" now, why should a customer be forced to tip when they are making an order, rather than after they have received the order and can determine if the worker deserved a tip for satisfactory or exemplary service?

I absolutely understand the need to regulate corporates to ensure that they didn't steal the tips or lower their workers' salary based on it. My questions pertain to consumer rights. The government has rightly addressed the needs of the workers and preserved their right to a "fair" wage. But how is regulation that forces customers to tip at checkout itself (even before one has experienced the service) fair to the customers? (And ofcourse, by asking for a tip before checkout, you are forcing customers to give tip because apparently delivery people can see if someone has tipped or not before accepting an order, and most delivery people do not accept orders without tips or tend to de-prioritise it). Democracy is meant to balance everyone's right. Instead of forcing corporates to pay a fair wage, the government has (yet again) transferred part of the burden to customers (this time directly, instead of indirectly through taxes) and even thinks this is something to brags about:

> ... show tips nearly doubled after the city started enforcing the law and were “proof” that the apps were wrong about New Yorkers’ willingness to tip delivery drivers ... New Yorkers are consumers, but we are workers too. We want to support our neighbors who bring meals, groceries, and medicine to our doors.

Yeah, right - if someone is forced to tip because the system is designed around tips, that's not good grace driving the customers to tip. I am left to believe that this was a deliberate concession made to the corporates because it is in their interest that delivery people earn more (as long as they don't have to pay for it). So while the government maybe did do a good job in balancing the rights of the corporates and the workers, it has ignored the rights of consumers and deliberately sacrificed it.

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#5

US tipping culture is insane: 1. If "tips" in the US are "compulsory" because customers should make up for the poor wage the delivery people get paid, why is there still a compulsion for tipping now as the wages have been increased (and presumably is "fair")? 2. And if the wages are "fair" now, why should a customer be forced to tip when they are making an order, rather than after they have received the order and can…

the whole economic ecosystem is sinking due to a spiral of low-participation, low-quality services and rising backend prices for all the legally mandated support. Lots of third world countries have a more thriving street vendor situation now than major US cities. In the local news here (California), there is a monthly column of restaurant closings -- in a place known for tourism and food.

Arguments about mandatory tipping are an expression of a power struggle between large companies, small business, workers and customers. As usual, the predominant news available to consumers paints the details in incomplete ways.. Journalists are not doing original economic research, and powers-that-be won't speak plainly.

ps- undocumented workers in retail food and commercial food supply are certainly part of this story in the USA.

source: opinion

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#6

I think this just further confuses end users and is another reason we should get rid of tipping culture. Tips are currently serving several purposes in users' minds: 1. earned for great service 2. to make up for lower base pay (tipped min wage is lower in many US states) 3. to help employees who they feel aren't making enough Now reasons #2 and #3 are no longer true because driers are now fairly (IMHO) compensated th…

I had honestly forgotten about reason #1 as I haven't heard anyone mentioning the service when leaving a tip in decades. IMO that's dying boomer behavior. Everyone understands that tipped workers are universally underpaid, and either tip generously in solidarity (if they are normal or vaguely left wing/liberal) or tip the minimum they can get away with socially or legally (if they misanthropes or right wingers). The tip isn't an optional part of the bill -- withholding it is deliberately underpaying vulnerable workers who probably have little control over their conditions of work (and therefore the level of service) anyway, so it doesn't even work as an incentive. If you don't like this, cook your own food.

When service work is strongly organized and represented we can start talking about changing tipping culture.

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#8

I think this just further confuses end users and is another reason we should get rid of tipping culture. Tips are currently serving several purposes in users' minds: 1. earned for great service 2. to make up for lower base pay (tipped min wage is lower in many US states) 3. to help employees who they feel aren't making enough Now reasons #2 and #3 are no longer true because driers are now fairly (IMHO) compensated th…

I had honestly forgotten about reason #1 as I haven't heard anyone mentioning the service when leaving a tip in decades. IMO that's dying boomer behavior. Everyone understands that tipped workers are universally underpaid, and either tip generously in solidarity (if they are normal or vaguely left wing/liberal) or tip the minimum they can get away with socially or legally (if they misanthropes or right wingers). The…

I don't tip at all, ever. What are my politics? I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#9

I think this just further confuses end users and is another reason we should get rid of tipping culture. Tips are currently serving several purposes in users' minds: 1. earned for great service 2. to make up for lower base pay (tipped min wage is lower in many US states) 3. to help employees who they feel aren't making enough Now reasons #2 and #3 are no longer true because driers are now fairly (IMHO) compensated th…

I had honestly forgotten about reason #1 as I haven't heard anyone mentioning the service when leaving a tip in decades. IMO that's dying boomer behavior. Everyone understands that tipped workers are universally underpaid, and either tip generously in solidarity (if they are normal or vaguely left wing/liberal) or tip the minimum they can get away with socially or legally (if they misanthropes or right wingers). The…

What is the evidence that tipped workers are universally underpaid? Compared to who and against what benchmark? In the law passed by the city, the drivers are now very well compensated -- and guaranteed that compensation (something I believe is important).

Re: Delivery workers made $104M more in tips after NYC began enforcing new law

#10

I think this just further confuses end users and is another reason we should get rid of tipping culture. Tips are currently serving several purposes in users' minds: 1. earned for great service 2. to make up for lower base pay (tipped min wage is lower in many US states) 3. to help employees who they feel aren't making enough Now reasons #2 and #3 are no longer true because driers are now fairly (IMHO) compensated th…

Yeah, the change was to force the apps to include a tip option before the food arrived, which users interpret as the "don't spit in my food" option. Of _course_ tips went up when the apps were forced to make this change.

I am looking forward to the day when food delivery transport robots fully replace human delivery workers, because the robots don't need to be tipped and have zero chance of spitting in my food if I don't tip them.
Post reply on HN