Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up • Hacker News Board

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#11

Post by pton_xd » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 4:59 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #9

pavel_lishin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean? I cannot remember any particular scientific revolution where scientists were suicidal, or even particularly crestfallen. Quantum Mechanics is the closest thing I can think of, where Einstein famously refused to accept some of the implications, and where scientists had great disagreements about things like the Copenhagen interpretation and what it means for the actual nature of reality - but I don't t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall had to drink a beaker of Helicobacter pylori because no one would believe it caused ulcers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis wound up in an insane asylum for suggesting surgeons should wash their hands. Scientists get hidebound just like the rest of us, at times.

> wound up in an insane asylum for suggesting surgeons should wash their hands.

Was rejected and mocked by the medical community for his idea, developed a drinking problem and eventually committed to an asylum by his colleagues after having a nervous breakdown. While in the asylum he was beaten by the guards and died from a wound infection ... yikes!!

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#12

Post by colechristensen » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:00 PM UTC

I really dislike the writing style of being so "friendly" for people who don't know anything about the space that you obscure what the topic of the article is at all.

It's a third of the way through the article when "g-2", the problem at hand, is mentioned. Information that should have been shared in the title took a third of the article to figure out.

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#13

Post by black6 » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #4

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #2

That's the best part about science.

I remember reading the Three Body Problem, and thinking to myself: this is implausible. If scientists started getting weird results, they'd be thrilled , not suicidal!

They were getting inconsistent results, not just weird ones. However I agree that suicide probably wouldn't be where they would end up.

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#14

Post by glenstein » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:11 PM UTC

Diogenesian wrote: post #10

pavel_lishin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading the Three Body Problem, and thinking to myself: this is implausible. If scientists started getting weird results, they'd be thrilled , not suicidal!

I believe the alien scientists were depressed by the guaranteed collapse of their civilization, not the difficulty of certain differential equations. So it's more like a doctor getting weird results while working on a cure for a pandemic. Edit: oops, see the reply below... and my grumpy response. I seriously forgot about that entire plot point.

I'm pretty sure they're referring to scientists on Earth.

Edit: Though I agree that alien scientists of Tri-Solaris probably lead more depressing lives than their counterparts on earth

I don't know if this series is yet considered far enough in the past that we don't have to worry about spoiler warnings (I feel like the house rules about this apply differently to books than to movies), but I will just say that one of the most fascinating and mind-bending considerations in the book is the idea that some civilizations progress linearly and some progress exponentially, and how mind bending it is to have to plan ahead for exponential advances.

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#15

Post by tgarrett » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:11 PM UTC

an0malous wrote: post #5

pavel_lishin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading the Three Body Problem, and thinking to myself: this is implausible. If scientists started getting weird results, they'd be thrilled , not suicidal!

The history of scientific revolutions does not support this view

I'm a plasma physicist, and personally I love weird results - new mysteries to solve! That said, there are a wide range of personality types out there. And I would also be extremely surprised if the correct solution to some particular weird result was, for instance, that the Maxwell equations are broken for that regime (other than expected quantum corrections, e.g. the Schwinger limit).

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#16

Post by gloryjulio » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:12 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #12

I really dislike the writing style of being so "friendly" for people who don't know anything about the space that you obscure what the topic of the article is at all. It's a third of the way through the article when "g-2", the problem at hand, is mentioned. Information that should have been shared in the title took a third of the article to figure out.

Yep. This would backfire spectacularly for people just want to know what's going on. They would just dump the article in the llm and ask, 'what problem is this article about'

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#17

Post by glenstein » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:14 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #9

pavel_lishin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean? I cannot remember any particular scientific revolution where scientists were suicidal, or even particularly crestfallen. Quantum Mechanics is the closest thing I can think of, where Einstein famously refused to accept some of the implications, and where scientists had great disagreements about things like the Copenhagen interpretation and what it means for the actual nature of reality - but I don't t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall had to drink a beaker of Helicobacter pylori because no one would believe it caused ulcers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis wound up in an insane asylum for suggesting surgeons should wash their hands. Scientists get hidebound just like the rest of us, at times.

Those are definitely unfortunate examples and I can see how those environments pushed them to their limits. But if we're talking large-scale systematic thinking about what kind of data would be necessary to show that there's such a thing as a typical, characteristic civilization scale negative reaction to scientific revolutions, these don't demonstrate that this is the usual case. Obviously they're important in their own right.

But also the book doesn't suggest that scientists going missing was just a function of humanity's customary response to scientific progress. In the book, it's a very intentional sabotage campaign.

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#18

Post by storywatch » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:19 PM UTC

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #2

That's the best part about science.

It's good for the world but terrible for the practitioners in academia. Imagine you are in your last year of your PhD and then something new comes out and completely invalidates/obsoletes your results. Cough natural language processing PhDs during COVID when GPT-3 came around..

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#19

Post by ben_w » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:21 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #6

an0malous wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of scientific revolutions does not support this view

How do you mean? I cannot remember any particular scientific revolution where scientists were suicidal, or even particularly crestfallen. Quantum Mechanics is the closest thing I can think of, where Einstein famously refused to accept some of the implications, and where scientists had great disagreements about things like the Copenhagen interpretation and what it means for the actual nature of reality - but I don't t…

One of the boldest chapter one introductions I've ever seen comes to mind:

  Ludwig Boltzmann, who spent much of his life studying statistical mechanics, died in 1906, by his own hand. Paul Ehrenfest, carrying on the work, died similarly in 1933. Now it is our turn to study statistical mechanics.

- "States of Matter", David L. Goodstein, https://archive.org/details/statesofmatter0000good_e2n5/page...

Re: Physicists Solve a Muon Mystery. Now, Old Results Don't Add Up

#20

Post by Diogenesian » Thu, Jul 30, 2026, 5:21 PM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #14

Diogenesian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the alien scientists were depressed by the guaranteed collapse of their civilization, not the difficulty of certain differential equations. So it's more like a doctor getting weird results while working on a cure for a pandemic. Edit: oops, see the reply below... and my grumpy response. I seriously forgot about that entire plot point.

I'm pretty sure they're referring to scientists on Earth. Edit: Though I agree that alien scientists of Tri-Solaris probably lead more depressing lives than their counterparts on earth I don't know if this series is yet considered far enough in the past that we don't have to worry about spoiler warnings (I feel like the house rules about this apply differently to books than to movies), but I will just say that one of…

Hmm, fair enough - I checked Wikipedia. My mind completely erased the "sophon" bit or whatever it was called, it just got erased again. Not a fan of that particular fairy dust.

I thought they were referring to the inability of the aliens to make an accurate calendar.