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Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#111
Manufacturing the batteries would probably benefit from solid state. The Panasonic battery plant in the exurbs of Kansas City, MO has had two evacuations this year from thermal issues related to lithium-ion battery production, including one yesterday morning. [0] [1]

[0]https://www.kmbc.com/article/lithium-ion-batteries-catch-fir...

[1]https://www.kmbc.com/article/panasonic-plant-de-soto-evacuat...

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range is not a real issue for electric cars. Charging time is, though, and there are massive improvements happening for that right now.

Its a huge issue in cold climates.

uphills + cold/hot climates, the ranges won't be able to compete with ICE. its basic physics. cold uphill still reduces charging speed, available power, and range, while sustained heat accelerates degradation. Thermal-management systems mitigate those weaknesses by consuming energy and adding cost, weight, and complexity.

meanwhile ICE has gotten ridiculously clean and efficient over the years it is more efficient at the shaft does not settle total-system efficiency, cost, weight, resource use, grid losses, battery production, or suitability for every operating env. Comparing an engine with a motor while ignoring the battery and electricity supply chain is silly

I still do not trust that sitting on a pile of lithium batteries is safe. NMC does not mean non flammable or consequence free. LFP cells can still enter thermal runaway, release toxic gases, reignite, and require difficult firefighting procedures. They also generally trade energy density and cold-weather performance for that improved safety. Also the speed charging ? That dramatically reduces the stability and lifespan of the batteries. Ton of used EVs not being sold because the battery replacement is somewhere between 40~60% of the car's value.

we had ICE for over a century now, its just like a software that gets continuous updates ICE systems are highly optimized, repairable, energy-dense, fast to refuel, and supported by enormous infrastructure. EVs are improving faster partly because they still have major weaknesses to solve. A steeper improvement curve does not prove that the present technology is superior for every use case neither is using the latest javascript framework.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range is not a real issue for electric cars. Charging time is, though, and there are massive improvements happening for that right now.

This EV owner disagrees, and I imagine that city dwellers without dedicated charging agree

If you could charge the battery in 5 minutes at a public charger, would the range still be a problem?

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#114
post #66
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gasoline has 10x the energy (MJ/Kg) than TNT, but it's not a "bomb". Being a "bomb" is about energy release rate . A battery is still controlled by its chemistry.

Poorly stored gasoline can spontaneously combust, though. So more like a firebomb.

Gasoline doesn't do that. Perhaps you're thinking of the following?

What it does do is slowly polymerize, becoming useless as an ICE fuel in time, typically in a year or two. This is why backup generators should run on propane, which has no degradation mechanism.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a huge issue in cold climates.

uphills + cold/hot climates, the ranges won't be able to compete with ICE. its basic physics. cold uphill still reduces charging speed, available power, and range, while sustained heat accelerates degradation. Thermal-management systems mitigate those weaknesses by consuming energy and adding cost, weight, and complexity. meanwhile ICE has gotten ridiculously clean and efficient over the years it is more efficient at…

The latest battery chemistries perform incredibly well in cold and hot climates.

Internal combustion is not clean, and is inherently significantly less efficient than an electric motor.

Also, LFP chemistries are incredibly safe compared to NMC, which is what you're concerned about in terms of thermal runaway.

ICE is mostly stagnant tech. Meanwhile EV tech is rapidly improving!

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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How does someone with such short temper get to work in the aerospace industry? You know we are just a bunch of random strangers on the internet and telling someone to "sit down" just comes across as funny more than authoritative. And I don't think telling someone "I know exactly what the fuck I'm speaking of" has ever had the desired effect on the internet, it just screams insecure - if you're really an expert make it show through your words not by trying to intimidate people.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no phase transitions from -40C to 80C." Well that's fine for terrestrial use but aerospace needs that range to be expanded a little in both directions, otherwise it won't be much of a holy grail if it won't cover the needs of one of the largest growing industries.

[flagged]

Please don't attack another user like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It only makes things worse.

I believe I get the positive intention behind your post, btw - to defend conversation against shallow dismissals - and of course appreciate that. But if you'd please express it in a respectful way in the future, then you'll be contributing to good conversation rather than degrading it further.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse.

If you know more than others do, that's great! But please contribute by sharing some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn, rather than putting others down.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range is not a real issue for electric cars. Charging time is, though, and there are massive improvements happening for that right now.

This EV owner disagrees, and I imagine that city dwellers without dedicated charging agree

Plenty of city dwellers get by without home gasoline filling spigot.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#120
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all batteries need to be mobile. A 1 GWh grid scale battery takes up about 4 hectares at the moment. The UKs total energy use is about 2,000GWh a day. It would need to use 240,000 hectares to store all energy requirements (eletric, transport, heating etc) for a whole month. Even in extreme cold conditions it would last a couple of weeks. That would be about 1% of land use.

Storing a month of energy use doesn't make any sense when it comes to renewable grids. Since you don't have to mine/extract and transport an inventory, far far less storage is required.

Which just emphasises the point -- density and thus land use isn't really a major concern

You could store an entire years worth of energy (not just electricity) for a fairly dense country like the UK and still have 95% of the country left for other usage.

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