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'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

remysharp.com

141–150 of 185 posts

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#141
post #39

If I were a governmental body I would do everything I could to keep citizens using paid VPN's and big CDN's. Money trails are easy to follow and the majority of people are just paying with their bank. It makes people feel safe and more likely to expose certain behaviors. Paid VPN's can say they do not have logs whilst having real time lawful intercept API's. A handful of VPN providers become a one stop shop to get th…

> A handful of VPN providers become a one stop shop to get the data of what used to be hundreds or thousands of ISP's all over the world in many jurisdictions just as a few big DNS over HTTPS providers become a one stop shop to get the DNS of what used to be hundreds or thousands of ISP's all over the world. This is backward. How many ISPs do you have to choose from? Only a couple because there is limited and local i…

Instead of backward I would say it's looking in from a different window. Both your dilemma and the one I described can both be true. I am not suggesting to not use a VPN but rather load-balance and cycle through a mesh of user-provided VPN's that do not have a money trail so that neither your local ISP nor a big juicy centralized provider have your data.

As for disclosure of people being busted I would expect gag orders, the violation and prosecution of which can in some cases be worse than whatever the crime may have been. In the USA judges can hold people for contempt.

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#143

First question that need to asked from everyone including ownself , why you need VPN?

It is a sort of LAN network over the Internet. That way, you can connect to devices as if you were in the local network, but having them exposed to the internet.

Traffic is encrypted so there is noone knowing what you are sending, they can still trace that is coming to/from a specific node.

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#144
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the big VPN companies known from advertisments all over the internet are probably honeypots of the usual countries.

Not probably - most of them are confirmed.

Which ones are confirmed and where's the evidence?

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#145

VPNs are just tools that sketchy people use for sketchy means. There's no legitimate use for someone who isn't trying to break the law. Allowing these tools let's underage people access porn, and do all manner of undesirable behaviors like accessing region locked content. I have actually heard otherwise intelligent people say things just like that, including site operators who run nontrivial websites. There are of co…

I use a VPN to have access to my HomeAssistant instance at home, where I can control every aspect of the house. Without this, I would have to pay for a domain name, manage the certificates, and exposing myself to external attacks. So, for me, a VPN reduces massively the attack surface.

There is this law, where if you don't see the purpose of something, is probably because you never needed it. Which is fine, but don't gatekeep others wanting to use them.

Edit: OP forgot to format text, so my anger should be directed to however said the quote...

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#146

First question that need to asked from everyone including ownself , why you need VPN?

Why do online services need to know where I am? Why does my ISP need to know who I'm communicating with? For me, VPNs are about reducing privacy leakage. Most of the internet collects, aggregates, and sells knowledge about their users, and VPNs are an important tool for withholding that.

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#147

VPNs are just tools that sketchy people use for sketchy means. There's no legitimate use for someone who isn't trying to break the law. Allowing these tools let's underage people access porn, and do all manner of undesirable behaviors like accessing region locked content. I have actually heard otherwise intelligent people say things just like that, including site operators who run nontrivial websites. There are of co…

> I have actually heard otherwise intelligent people say things just like that, including site operators who run nontrivial websites.

First of all: thank you for using the word say, rather than think or believe or anything of that ilk. Too many of these discussions reduce to attributing or misattributing motivations to people.

That said, I still have issues with that statement. Let's assume that you are talking about an intelligent person who works in tech. Chances are something was taken out of context because they probably know what VPNs are for and that they have legitimate uses. Sometimes they miss context because they are not expressing their ideas clearly. Sometimes we miss context because we hear something we violently oppose to, and ignore the rest.

Another issue is that categorizing and vilifying people genuinely doesn't help the cause. At best, people will ignore the counter points. At worse, it will push people further away. We have to listen and educate based upon issues that are relevant to the audience.

Simplistic responses like, "freedom of speech" won't solve anything because those words have lost meaning. Too many people scream "freedom of speech" to excuse what they are saying, while they are active in suppressing the freedom of speech of others. Too many people use the freedom of speech as a tool to intimidate others, to restrict the speech or legal actions of others, because they are more interested in imposing their values on others rather than challenging the values of others. We should be illustrating ways that freedom of speech are relevant using examples that are relevant to the people we are speaking to. In the case of framing freedom of speech for people who are concerned with abortion: pro-life people may respond better to presenting freedom of speech as a safe stage to promote the sacredness of life, while pro-choice people may respond better to framing the freedom of speech as a safe way to seek out information relating to getting an abortion.

Likewise, people can see through simplistic attacks like accusing others of using children for leverage in an argument. Most of the people who say "think of the children" are trying to dismiss people who are trying, legitimately, to protect a vulnerable class. There are plenty of good reasons why the policy mechanisms to protect a vulnerable class may be objectionable, yet framing one's opposition with a reductionist interpretation of intent pushes people apart when they ought to be seeking out better solutions. For example: two people may agree that underage access to porn has to be dealt with, but disagree on the role that VPNs play in circumventing restrictions. So talk about how VPNs are not an age-based access control mechanism. Talk about the misclassification of information about gender and sexuality as pornography, assuming it is relevant to who you are talking to. Talk about the other benefits that VPNs offer in maintaining a free society. In other words, get them on your side and start seeking out better solutions.

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#148

First question that need to asked from everyone including ownself , why you need VPN?

My ISP Comcast (rebranded to Xfinity to avoid all the negative associations with it's actual name) does man in the middle attacks on HTTP connections and injects javascript code into webpages. I actually had this happen to the steam browser back in ~2013 and I had to restart it. But they still do it today in 2026. I don't use a commercial VPN because I host from home. But I do tunnel my HTTP browsing to a remote VPS…

They also block 3rd-party DNS in many cases, forcing you to use theirs so they can sell your activity more completely.

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#149

Writer seems to overlook the issue of the UK no longer being in the EU

The writer is a relatively prominent UK developer; he certainly hasn't missed that the UK isn't in the EU.

You're likely referring to the line "Hopefully this draws a simple line in the sand for the UK government, ..."; the strictest interpretation of the metaphor is certainly muddled, but it is common in the UK to look to EU rulings and policy discussions for comparison to our own - politicians will be aware of them and will use them to help decide whether or not to test things in our own courts.

Re: 'VPNs are lawful technical tools,' says EU Court in landmark copyright ruling

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this StackOverflow now, where it's forbidden to discuss something if someone else had a similar discussion before?

Ever I'd hope not, but it would make sense to check if a discussion was already started a week ago and add to it rather than start separate ones constantly for each new piece of news - but not as a strict requirement, just an ask. After enough time there tends to be additional development/information which makes using the old conversations useless.

For most of the people on this board, they'd do better to spend that time touching grass as opposed to searching for something that people might have talked about anywhere from 1min - 365+ days ago.
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