Live data from Hacker News

How old is Ann?

quuxplusone.github.io

31–40 of 76 posts

Re: How old is Ann?

#31
post #27
post #9

Rephrasing it makes it easier to grasp: Mary is 24 years old. When Mary was Ann’s current age, Ann was 12 years old (half Mary’s current age). This makes it a bit easier to realize that Ann’s age has to be right in the middle of 12 and 24.

Ah, that makes sense. I originally read it differently. > Mary is 24 years old. She is twice as old as Ann was when Mary was as old as Ann is now. How old is Ann? Which I read as: > Mary is 24 years old. When Mary was Ann's current age, Anne was half the age she currently is. Which would mean Anne is 16 (because when Mary was 24-8=16, Anne's current age, then Anne was 16/2=8, half Anne's current age). But re-reading…

Indeed,

> (A writer to the Montgomery (Alabama) Advertiser of 1903-10-24 points out that you can get the apparently-most-common wrong answer if you read the puzzle incorrectly as “She was twice as old as Ann was when Mary [sic] was as old as Ann now is.”)

Re: How old is Ann?

#32
post #25

Mary IS 24. So Ann WAS 12. Say that was X years ago. Then Mary WAS 24-X and Ann IS 12+X. So 24-X=12+X, X=6, Ann is 18. I can't see a way to do it without algebra.

It's a kind of cheating because it means not understanding the essence of the problem but with such small numbers enumeration is a viable strategy. > Mary is 24 years old. She is twice as old as Ann was So Ann was 12 > when Mary was as old as Ann is now So Mary is older than Ann. The age of Ann is somewhere between 12 and 24. Without much thinking I'd say that probably 12 and 24 are not included and probably it is an…

> It's a kind of cheating because it means not understanding the essence of the problem

In my opinion, this method presumes a clear understanding of the problem itself.

If you didn't have a clear understanding of the problem, you would not be able to test an answer to see if it is correct.

Now, this clear understanding of the problem could, of course, be coupled with a lack of understanding of other methods available (such as algebra) to solve the problem.

OTOH, maybe it's just coupled with a clear understanding that with the working memory that you have available to you right at the moment and without writing anything down, you don't even need those other methods.

Re: How old is Ann?

#33

Here's the simplest form I could distill it to. The other comments I find quite verbose or confusing, no offense intended. x: Ann's current age y: The age difference between Ann and Mary 24 = x + y (ie. their current ages) x = (24/2) + y (ie. their age in the past) Solve for y in one equation and plug it into the other. You'll get x = 18.

That's not how I read it. I read it as:

  Now : Mary is 24 = 2y,  Ann is x
  Past: Mary is x,        Ann is 12 = y
Moreover, we have x + delta = 24, and 12 + delta = x (they get older at same rate), so delta = 6 and x = 18.

Re: How old is Ann?

#34

"Any eighth-grade boy or girl who is 'all there' should solve it in about thirty seconds" is hyperbole (it took me a couple of minutes), but in general the public reaction to this seems like a demonstration of the Flynn effect.

Couple of minutes to understand the english, and an editor to write the formulas :-)

Re: How old is Ann?

#35

Here's the simplest form I could distill it to. The other comments I find quite verbose or confusing, no offense intended. x: Ann's current age y: The age difference between Ann and Mary 24 = x + y (ie. their current ages) x = (24/2) + y (ie. their age in the past) Solve for y in one equation and plug it into the other. You'll get x = 18.

[deleted]

Re: How old is Ann?

#36
Ah yes. The famous problem that is ambiguous because it ignores space travel!

Let M_n := Mary's age now = 24, A_n := Ann's age now, and let M_p, A_p be the ages of Mary and Ann at a certain point in the past. We have that M_n = 24 = 2(A_p) from "Mary is 24 years old. She is twice as old as Ann was", immediately implying that A_p = 12. At the point in time p when M_p, A_p were the ages of Mary and Ann, respectively, we have that M_p = A_n from "when Mary was as old as Ann is now". Also, let x := | M_n - M_p | = | A_n - A_p | be the amount of time that has passed between the point p in time and now. Since M_n > M_p and A_n > A_p by construction, we can drop absolute values, yielding M_n = M_p + x, A_n = A_p + x. Substituting, we have M_p = 24 - x, and A_n = 12 + x, yielding x = 24 - M_p = A_n - 12, yielding A_n = 36 - M_p. But, since M_p = A_n, we can write 2(A_n) = 36 yielding A_n = 18.

This problem, however, completely ignores the fact that Ann boarded an interstellar spaceship 6 years ago at a reasonable fraction of the speed of light c. To account for this missing detail, we need to use Lorentz factors. Since Ann was the one traveling in space, we have to adjust her current age by calculating A_n = A_p + x * sqrt(1 - (v/c)^2)), where v is Ann's velocity Given that the problem is missing the critical detail of how fast Ann is hurtling towards the outer boundary of the universe, we really can't calculate their age at all. Nonetheless, given the completely reasonable and plausible assumption that Ann has been traveling at 95% of the speed of light because spaceships totally can do that, Ann is obviously about 13.87 years old. So 18 years old is clearly the wrong answer.

Note that the fact that Ann is not aging as much due to traveling at an enormous velocity does NOT change Mary's age. Mary remains exactly twice as old as Ann was at the given point in the past, so she's 24 and 6 years have passed from her perspective. Only Ann's age changes. Obviously.

Re: How old is Ann?

#38
post #17

Mary IS 24. So Ann WAS 12. Say that was X years ago. Then Mary WAS 24-X and Ann IS 12+X. So 24-X=12+X, X=6, Ann is 18. I can't see a way to do it without algebra.

> I can't see a way to do it without algebra. This is related to "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." It's slightly different, because you've supercharged your hammer. Everything you ever understood about how to solve word problems has been subsumed into what your brain labels as "algebra." But look at it this way: 1) Did you use algebra to convert the problem to algebraic form? Probably not…

Sorry to say, the first half of this comment is almost gibberish. It became algebra when I introduced an unknown variable and wrote down an equation. I can't see a way to solve the problem without doing that.

> If X is Ann's current age, then the problem setup is: 24 - x = x - 12

How did you get this equation from the problem statement? The equation is of course correct, but I don't see how you would derive it, other than writing down a more obvious equation and rearranging it.

Re: How old is Ann?

#39
post #25

Mary IS 24. So Ann WAS 12. Say that was X years ago. Then Mary WAS 24-X and Ann IS 12+X. So 24-X=12+X, X=6, Ann is 18. I can't see a way to do it without algebra.

It's a kind of cheating because it means not understanding the essence of the problem but with such small numbers enumeration is a viable strategy. > Mary is 24 years old. She is twice as old as Ann was So Ann was 12 > when Mary was as old as Ann is now So Mary is older than Ann. The age of Ann is somewhere between 12 and 24. Without much thinking I'd say that probably 12 and 24 are not included and probably it is an…

It's not cheating, but it's not enlightening either.

Re: How old is Ann?

#40
post #9

Rephrasing it makes it easier to grasp: Mary is 24 years old. When Mary was Ann’s current age, Ann was 12 years old (half Mary’s current age). This makes it a bit easier to realize that Ann’s age has to be right in the middle of 12 and 24.

> This makes it a bit easier to realize that Ann’s age has to be right in the middle of 12 and 24.

How did you actually make that deduction? I can only see it by writing down an equation. I can't see anything in the problem that directly implies it.

Post reply on HN