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OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

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41–50 of 90 posts

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subjectively; as 100% of all laws and rules throughout history have been enforced.

I suspect people keep asking because it’s becoming, with each passing day, increasingly difficult to distinguish what has been generated from what has not

Open source maintainers just want to avoid slop PRs and it's very easy to distinguish them

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#42
post #26

My prophecy is that in 3 years we'll see a complete reversal of this. Using GenAI to code will be the default and we'll see policies that put limits on human/artisan development. Possibly even projects that outright ban non-LLM development.

I don't know the timeline, but I generally agree.

I think history agrees too, i.e. machine code > assembly language > high-level programming language > prompts.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#43
post #28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is anyone using even a tiny on-device language model for spelling? For grammar, I could almost imagine it. But this also bans "simple" AI-powered auto-complete, like Zed's Zeta2 model. This is a very conservative model that rarely tries to propose more than a few obvious lines (at least in my use cases). If a developer accepts a three-line autocomplete that introduces a bug, that's kind of on them. Honestly, about th…

The is not exactly my point. I am speaking of spelling/grammar checkers are part of the IDE and/or OS. You'd have to know your IDE and/or OS's implementation details to know you are not using an LLM based one.

I'm fairly confident mine doesn't. There'd be 0 benefit to using an LLM for something we've had near perfect tooling around for decades.

LSPs vs LLM Autocomplete are a different story, but I can just turn that off.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#44
post #12

While I understand the caution, the current policy seems too draconian. It states in part: > Until that policy is in place, the Governing Board has approved this interim policy: > Contributions in the OpenJDK Community must not include content generated, in part or in full, by large language models... Note, this would exclude most spell checkers, as they often are LLM based. That said, they do soften this with the ad…

Why is it draconian? If we take Dec-2025 as the point where the models became good for real work (agreed by many), not even a year has passed since then. The world hasn't changed, and there are still many open legal questions.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#45
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this would exclude most spell checkers, as they often are LLM based Who is using an LLM as a spell checker?

My point is you might be when you wrote your comment or I might be in writing this comment. However, I don't know if I am as I haven't seen, and will likely never see, the implementation behind the text box that is suggesting the next letter, word, or spelling correction as I type.

Can you point at a specific spell checker that is known to use an LLM?

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#46
post #26

My prophecy is that in 3 years we'll see a complete reversal of this. Using GenAI to code will be the default and we'll see policies that put limits on human/artisan development. Possibly even projects that outright ban non-LLM development.

At this point, I wouldn't be too surprised if LLMs just get better at "write understandable, maintainable code" than most developers are. For now, LLMs are still bad at it, but they're already at "competitive with humans" tier of bad. I expect them to get better.

I don't think they ever will on the "maintainable" part until their absolutely atrocious memory gets improved at least tenfold. (and no, the tricks we deployed until now aren't enough)

They already are better than most humans at writing code for sure but even the best SOTA model is worse than your average intern at memorization.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#47

How do you enforce this?

Best effort, just like in the case of existing contributor agreements that demand you to be the copyright holder.

Or like in the case of checking that free range eggs are in fact free range eggs.

Or like in the case of Steam demanding AI disclosure, to the dismay of Tim Sweeney ...

Let's hope the dismay increases over time.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subjectively; as 100% of all laws and rules throughout history have been enforced.

I suspect people keep asking because it’s becoming, with each passing day, increasingly difficult to distinguish what has been generated from what has not

Look, if nobody knows, nobody cares.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I wouldn't be too surprised if LLMs just get better at "write understandable, maintainable code" than most developers are. For now, LLMs are still bad at it, but they're already at "competitive with humans" tier of bad. I expect them to get better.

I don't think they ever will on the "maintainable" part until their absolutely atrocious memory gets improved at least tenfold. (and no, the tricks we deployed until now aren't enough) They already are better than most humans at writing code for sure but even the best SOTA model is worse than your average intern at memorization.

That's the entire point of the "maintainable" part: someone with no "memory" of what was written where and why should be able to walk into the codebase, understand how it works, and be able to make a sensible change to it without setting things on fire.

Someone with "memory" should be able to do the same faster, but having that memory should not be a requirement.

Whether that "someone" is a freshly onboarded mid-level SWE or a mid-tier coding LLM is largely irrelevant.

Re: OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI

#50
post #26

My prophecy is that in 3 years we'll see a complete reversal of this. Using GenAI to code will be the default and we'll see policies that put limits on human/artisan development. Possibly even projects that outright ban non-LLM development.

At this point, I wouldn't be too surprised if LLMs just get better at "write understandable, maintainable code" than most developers are. For now, LLMs are still bad at it, but they're already at "competitive with humans" tier of bad. I expect them to get better.

You might well end up being right, but if you are, I believe it'll be because "most developers" will have become worse at programming, not because GenAI has become massively better.
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