RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
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Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#2Who's an end user.
Unless you own your hardware, you aren't the end user. When your phone, tv, camera, or even laptop on a non-free OS is on your network, you can get some semblance of control by controlling what network services it uses.
Things like DoH are part of the removal of my control as a home user and give it to Sony, or Apple, or TPLink
The most obvious thing is it becomes harder to block adverts.
Throw in internet-centralisation through HN darlings like cloudflare and you're screwed. You have no idea what anything is talking to, as it's the same destination IPs, so the choice is either block it completely, or allow it with no control.
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#3The internet is for whoever wants to send bits to each other and is willing to pay for transit to do it. The WWW might be for end users, though that seems less obvious by the day.
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#4Who's an end user. Unless you own your hardware, you aren't the end user. When your phone, tv, camera, or even laptop on a non-free OS is on your network, you can get some semblance of control by controlling what network services it uses. Things like DoH are part of the removal of my control as a home user and give it to Sony, or Apple, or TPLink The most obvious thing is it becomes harder to block adverts. Throw in…
> Who's an end user.
I think in this context it'd be any netizen who does not hold a significant amount of power to influence other [unrelated to them] netizens?
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#5Who's an end user. Unless you own your hardware, you aren't the end user. When your phone, tv, camera, or even laptop on a non-free OS is on your network, you can get some semblance of control by controlling what network services it uses. Things like DoH are part of the removal of my control as a home user and give it to Sony, or Apple, or TPLink The most obvious thing is it becomes harder to block adverts. Throw in…
I do share your actual concern, but I think the term 'end user' applies to any human sitting in front of a computer, trying to achieve something, independently of whether the effective sysadmin works against his interests or not.
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#6The internet is for whoever wants to send bits to each other and is willing to pay for transit to do it. The WWW might be for end users, though that seems less obvious by the day.
what you write is excactly the problem the RFC tries to address.
And not only for http but for the whole internet protocol family.
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#7Inevitably the internet will have two types of users:
1. The anti-bot bots that must stop you from proceeding, because they aren't entirely sure you aren't a bot
2. The bots that can get past them, which we all must eventually deploy, if we want a chance to visit a web pageRe: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#8The internet is for whoever wants to send bits to each other and is willing to pay for transit to do it. The WWW might be for end users, though that seems less obvious by the day.
what you write is excactly the problem the RFC tries to address. And not only for http but for the whole internet protocol family.
sorry but that ship has sailed.
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#9Inevitably the internet will have two types of users: 1. The anti-bot bots that must stop you from proceeding, because they aren't entirely sure you aren't a bot and 2. The bots that can get past them, which we all must eventually deploy, if we want a chance to visit a web page
Why would anyone ever want to solve 99 Cloudflare captchas a day if you can get a bot to do it instead?
Re: RFC 8890 – The Internet is for End Users (2020)
#10Who's an end user. Unless you own your hardware, you aren't the end user. When your phone, tv, camera, or even laptop on a non-free OS is on your network, you can get some semblance of control by controlling what network services it uses. Things like DoH are part of the removal of my control as a home user and give it to Sony, or Apple, or TPLink The most obvious thing is it becomes harder to block adverts. Throw in…
> Who's an end user. I think in this context it'd be any netizen who does not hold a significant amount of power to influence other [unrelated to them] netizens?
So me. The only influence I have over what "my" phone does is monitoring and blocking what it connects to when it's connected to my network.
DoH works against that