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Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

citizens-initiative.europa.eu

291–300 of 313 posts

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#291
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution then seems to be holding people in power accountable, no? Digital ID or not, the situation won't improve until we get actual representation that works for the people.

> The solution, then, seems to be holding people in power accountable, no? The problem is that this is an extremely difficult step to achieve, because it does not simply depend on the will of the people. It depends on cultural evolution. Human beings are not naturally rational; like other species, we are driven by evolutionary processes that are often irrational and self-interested. Most countries—and, more specifica…

> Most countries—and, more specifically, the majority of their citizens—have not yet reached this stage of civilizational development.

While I do agree, I don't believe that the reason is barbarism. My view is that the general public have been imbued with a sense of smallness. We see powerful men twist the world to suit themselves and yet we can't do anything ourselves, alone. The solution is to embrace our agency and organize.

Collective action is necessary to counter authoritative threats. We can sit behind our desk all day and espouse the virtues of voting and to vote with out wallet, but fundamentally, they are individual actions with little power. Western Europe is slightly better in this case, where labour rights are better enforced and people have more free time. Sure, the shops are closed too early for our convenience, but that gives people the time and opportunity to organize locally for the betterment of themselves.

But yes, we do need a cultural evolution, one of better awareness of our capabilities as citizens to organise and demand better of our leaders.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#292
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: meatspace is awful unless you're a normie. Christ, the day I got out of my small town and into a major city university dorm room with fast Internet was the day my life opened up. I found people with my interests. Etc. "The Internet sucks. Get offline," is the battle cry of someone who likes Marvel movies and the book that Target has at the checkout line, or lives in one of about five cities in the USA.

I really do understand your sentiment, but please remember that "meatspace" is the whole world. You can hate stupid marvel movies and chain department stores all you like, but the entire world of books, hobbies, technology, etc. is available to you. I'm not joking: I'll bet that NO ONE at your local library cares that you're weird so long as you're polite and follow the rules.

> the entire world of books, hobbies, technology, etc. is available to you

As I said, this is something people who live in about five cities think. Congratulations on living in one of them for your entire life.

Most of us had to do something like look in the yellow pages for a martial arts school, discover there were none, and be sad. Hell, I live in one of the ten most populous cities in the USA, and there is literally zero chance to play squash because there are no facilities in the entire city.

I couldn't watch anime beyond Sailor Moon until I was 17 and went off to a summer camp at a university in a big city. My roommate happened to have loads of knowledge and a big collection, which he graciously shared with me. He'd, of course, acquired it all with the Internet. Something unavailable to me.

Now extrapolate for hobbies that don't require a physical space, where you can find others on the Internet, even if everyone in a hundred mile radius of you thinks that hobbit is for "queers."

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the internet brings many distant people closer to you. All the exists on the internet exists in the real world (because the internet is part of the real world) but that doesn't mean you will find it anywhere near you. Others not minding you being weird is not the same as others being weird with you.

Even if we take your point that internet may be disappearing. A good way to brace yourself is to expand your scope: books, exercise, hobbies, etc. (and probably download a few romsets) will protect you.

You probably don't intend to sound as rude as you do, but to suggest that I don't read or exercise because I think the Internet is a massive boon for social lives is pretty dickish.

I boulder, run, play tennis. I read about thirty books a year. I have lots of hobbies. But the Internet has made them better. I write novels. The people who help me with beta reading are online, because no one IRL is interested in what I write.

Again, expanding one's social circle.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#294
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: meatspace is awful unless you're a normie. Christ, the day I got out of my small town and into a major city university dorm room with fast Internet was the day my life opened up. I found people with my interests. Etc. "The Internet sucks. Get offline," is the battle cry of someone who likes Marvel movies and the book that Target has at the checkout line, or lives in one of about five cities in the USA.

Oof. You're missing out if you think meatspace is limited to target and big American cities. I agree that the web makes it easy(er) to connect with others in niche interests, but in-person experiences can be so diverse, vibrant, stimulating that I understand the simmering tug some have toward wanting the internet to become unusable. I agree with sibling that a "healed" internet, while very optimistic, is the ideal ca…

who probably grew up in a big city. I unfortunately grew up in a small town, and it's really weird that you presume to dictate to me what small town life was like before the Internet. I assure you, I have decades marinating in it.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#295
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe me, German history education is very thorough in making sure people know that the Nazis weren't some kind of slippery slope situation where people didn't know what they were planning to do. The Nazis were open in their idea that Germany could have won WWI if it hadn't been for those damn lefties and their revolution. They were open about their desire to crush those lefties. They were open about their hatred f…

It was over a decade after the end of the war before the average German person realised the Nazis were the bad guys. Germany is also involving itself in another war right now where it thinks it is a good guy.

Which war?

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#296
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49080929 There is discussion about LLMs, models, CSAM, undressing people with AI, and posting those images to places. No handy wavy stuff, makes this problem go away due to filtering at creation. That's because, open models are a thing. So you either ban all open models, or maybe make it a crime to publish uncensored models, or you punish what individuals do on the internet…

Who cares if they undress people with AI. Its slop and not worth restricting liberties over it.

The women being undressed care.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't considered this before with SKG, but if this progresses, it means the EU parliament may choose to take action based on an initiative that potentially only a vocal minority supports [0], while coming across as if they were simply following the will of the people. What, you don't think that's how things work already except "the people" whose will is being followed is an even smaller group. Is political acti…

So I'm correct, but this works out in your favor so it's all good? I can ask demagogue questions too you know.

No, you're not correct that this is kind of problematic.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#298
post #105

There is a surprising amount of engineers who don’t understand what’s happening. So they deal with it as if it’s a funny thing… yeah if two police officers come knocking your door with hard data, you will just explain… and yeah, I mean kids, can bypass it… right? Wrong. This is not 1995. They can make very harsh laws and they can make it borderline impossible to bypass should some authority choose to do so. The dange…

You've seen Australia. Every kid who wanted had access to forbidden social media.

The control bit is the dangerous one, sure.

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