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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#141

Post by trentor »

sschueller wrote: post #46
K0nserv wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

Why do we need to verify age? You can't tell me that these social media companies don't already know exactly how old someone is just based on the enormous data that is collected.

If you want to use a service that is age restricted either by law or the company providing it how else would you do it? It's the same IRL. I don't like it as well and we certainly lived through the wild wild west times in the 90s and 00s but the more something gets economical important the more scrutiny it gets. Maybe we just need something new.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#142

Post by testdelacc1 »

K0nserv wrote: post #24
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

I want the market solving this but I don’t want to give any information to anyone who asks. I want Apple to verify me once, and then others to trust Apple that the device accessing their service is owned by someone over 18.

I’ll bet that most people are in the same boat - they trust their device manufacturer with information like their credit card number, but not anyone else.

And I think it’s a pragmatic compromise.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#143

Post by jonathanstrange »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

> It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter.

That's like saying "take a look at owners of fast sport cars, it's obvious this is not working and they have too many accidents." If you want to patronize other parents and think the government should be more responsible and parents less responsible, please state that honestly. Don't make up alleged "facts" to make a point.

Otherwise, I'll just say "it's obvious you're wrong, just observe the world around you and you know age verification is a non starter."

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#144

Post by account42 »

Xelbair wrote: post #101
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

>It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. Then who should? Government, where each implementation strips away rights to privacy - which in some countries, including mine, are a constitutional right? Where it expands powers of government to track everyone's activity online - and remember we're one election…

Let's also not forget that many of the problems this supposedly solves are not even specific to children. The attention economy is bad for everyone.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#145

Post by pbhjpbhj »

danparsonson wrote: post #84
inigyou wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. And if a kid drinks beer only the parents should be liable. Why are we all so horny to transfer unlimited liability to parents?

Because raising children is unequivocally the parents' responsibility. It's, like, their main job.

Viewing the continuance of our race as only the responsibility of parents is pathological.

Moreover, children are all of our [mid-term] futures too. If education fails, there are no doctors for anyone not ultra-wealthy.

You have to look from the other direction too - children have natural rights and deserve to be extending dignity as humans too.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#146

Post by shit_game »

shevy-java wrote: post #15

They want your data. YOU have become their product. By the way, this also explains one reason why Google shut down third party access/applications recently on Android. Android (if one uses the Google software) becomes the ultimate spy tool on people. At the same time you see several countries force age sniffing on people - this is the beginning of the end of the free web. It will happen in various steps; the next one…

> YOU have become their product

LOL

behind the curve, and completely missing the point.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#147

Post by maccard »

0x696C6961 wrote: post #85
K0nserv wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

This is scary though too. If the gov managed a key server like this, almost all companies would start requiring it. But this effectively gives the gov a very easy way to lock you out of everything.

As opposed to if google, Microsoft and apple operate the key server and a government can influence them?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#148

Post by dageshi »

Doesn't seem like most of the people on this thread actually read what they're planning.

It seems like a very good solution to me. It gives parents a simple solution to define the age of the phones user and a mechanism to allow apps to get an age range and tailor usage appropriately.

It does all this while leaving everyone else undisturbed.

Put the age range into http headers and you solve children accessing content via the web as well.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#149

Post by account42 »

tjpnz wrote: post #63
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

The parenting argument is a complete cop-out. There's no universe where you can be shoulder hovering 24/7. This could've been solved years ago with robust parental controls. But companies like Google just didn't want to because they wanted to shove ads in kids' faces.

Parenting doesn't have to mean become a helicopter either. In fact, that's the worst kind of parenting because it doesn't prepare the kid for a future without a parent around.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#150

Post by sobkas »

account42 wrote: post #136
Vespasian wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really nothing new and has always be the case It's not possible to tech yourself out of a political problem. So if there is something being done we should choose a solution that has at least some accountability to the general public (through elected representatives). The alternative is Google, Apple etc where almost anyone has exactly zero influence and the government can still block as they like.

If all alternatives are bad you should do none of them, not squabble about which one is slightly less bad.

Not doing anything is also an alternative, theoretically it can be worse than other alternatives too...
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