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An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

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Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#171
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people see the movie as the typical Hollywood fiction and in that light you can only judge it in isolation. Good action, solid characters. As the screen adaptation of a work written about a real person, you’d need to have the prerequisite knowledge of history, the written work, the person. These are very different points of view. If you didn’t know better you could enjoy a movie portraying Trump and the ICE (ins…

> reluctantly Stretching credulity a bit there.

Didn’t you see how young people don’t bat an eye when modern day series paint black people in powerful/leadership roles in the ‘60s-‘80s, or even just treated somewhat equally regardless of color? For Hollywood it was always easy to rewrite history to wash away sins, just wrap it in a saran wrap of fiction.

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#172

"A complicated man" is a stupid translation in the first place Polytropos means: a man of many twists and turns, describing simultaneously a person who has traveled widely and been "turned" by many hardships and places, as well as someone whose mind is clever, resourceful, versatile, and cunning enough to turn any situation to their advantage Or as W2 academics chasing book reviews and podcasts slots translate: "a co…

Every translation has to make tradeoffs. There's no way to perfectly translate a 2500 year old poem whose audience had an almost unfathomably different world view than a modern audience.

Wilson chose to prioritize making the translation uncomplicated and metrical the way it would have been to the original audience instead of trying to capture the full meaning of every single word. No other translation has done that before. They either aren't in meter or they torture the English language into strange and complicated grammar that has a very different effect on the audience than the original would have.

If you want different tradeoffs, then there are countless other translations to choose from. There would be no point writing a new translation if you aren't going to choose different tradeoffs.

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#173
post #28

> "The Odyssey features his usual combination of grandiosity and superficiality". A pretty succinct summation of Nolan as a filmmaker.

When I was a kid I loved Inception. As an adult I prefer Prestige. I wish he would go back to his older philosophy of movie making but he never made a bad movie I Think

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Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#174
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not read the odyssey yet, but I just finished the illiad and there the Warlords are measured in how much livestock they stole and Achilles gets mad about not getting his fair trophy share, which is measured in women. Hectors wife is worried about her husband, and he tells her, that there is nothing to worry about, when he is dead, because if he dies, the city is sacked and she would become a slave and this woul…

What are you even talking about man. I don't know how you misinterpreted that so badly. He is saying yes I might die but if I don't risk my life you will be a slave, so I am going to fight for you: "And tall Hector nodded, his helmet flashing: “All this weighs on my mind too, dear woman. But I would die of shame to face the men of Troy and the Trojan women trailing their long robes if I would shrink from battle now,…

> What are you even talking about man. I don't know how you misinterpreted that so badly. He is saying yes I might die but if I don't risk my life you will be a slave, so I am going to fight for you:

In the passage you cited he does not say that he is fighting for her; he is fighting for his honor, the glory of his father. Everything else he states are consequences. He doesn't reassure her, he offers her fate rather than hope.

> He's mad because he is camped out on a beach for a decade helping Agamemnon, which he has no obligation to do, and Agamemnon steals his sex slave for little reason and tells him to fuck off. Achilles then refuses to war for this guy, very reasonably.

Reasonable if your point in going to war is for riches; they are just a bunch of pirates and bandits, thats my point. Before the Illiad I had the idea of the noble greecs in their shining bronce armour. That was my misconception to be fair. So this was something that got me from the start. The only thing that seems to outweight riches is glory, it seems.

So my reading of the whole thing is, and please correct me if I misunderstood it , that the man fighting these wars are total manicas, they fight for glory, and women and tripods. They choose the best and wised of man (Nestor) on how good a cattle thief he is - ok not entirely he is also valued for his age and eloquence, but he got there beeing a pretty good cattle thief. They plunder the land and destroy everything around it and themselves. And I think the Illiad backs this up...

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#175
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid I loved Inception. As an adult I prefer Prestige. I wish he would go back to his older philosophy of movie making but he never made a bad movie I Think

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You will be my first victim Hopkins if you keep making fun of people going through crisises

How did you make up some random reality where I live in a country with Access to firearms? And what prompted you to make up some story in your head about a random internet user?

Are you currently suffering from dementia? If so i advice you to stay away from the internet.

You are an old guy, you should be smarter than trolling.

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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You will be my first victim Hopkins if you keep making fun of people going through crisises How did you make up some random reality where I live in a country with Access to firearms? And what prompted you to make up some story in your head about a random internet user? Are you currently suffering from dementia? If so i advice you to stay away from the internet. You are an old guy, you should be smarter than trolling.

[flagged]

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#177

In a movie involving a few archery scenes, a movie with a gargantuan budget - hire an archery instructor. As an advanced amateur archer, the glaring mistakes, from stringing a bow to the draw form and release, it's hard to suspend disbelief and continue watching. Yes, it's a movie based on a myth, but it would have been that much better for me, only if they threw a couple of $Ks to an archery coach. Same thing with m…

Yeah, I'm not an archery nerd and even I could see that the archery looked very poor compared to other movies like Lord of the Rings. There didn't seem to be any weight to the draw in most casts.

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will be my first victim Hopkins if you keep making fun of people going through crisises How did you make up some random reality where I live in a country with Access to firearms? And what prompted you to make up some story in your head about a random internet user? Are you currently suffering from dementia? If so i advice you to stay away from the internet. You are an old guy, you should be smarter than trolling.

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I interpret your ramblings as chemical deprivation. The way you use these valuable sites for inane online trolling sickens me.

It’s one thing to have some argument with someone online but to message them lifeline and suicide hotlines is a scum behavior.

I was in pretty low places in my years of life but I never ever got so bottom rock low where stalking someone and spam them with suicide hotline would seem appealing.

It is true that my psyche goes through ups and downs periodically but honestly, it pales in comparison to your comments.

Whatever I do it is not me that has done what you are doing. This is your own conscience, your own karma. I leave it to you to ponder upon and think about it. Is this really what you want to leave as your legacy.

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#179
post #100

> The Homeric epic was already an adaptation. The poem used a relatively new technology – the written alphabet – to rework existing mythical traditions [...] Can someone explain this one? I understand that 'The Odyssey' as a canonical work of literature can't predate the alphabet. But what she writes here makes it sound as if the written poem is just a loose adaptation of existing mythical traditions. I thought the c…

The Homeric epic as we have come to understand it is actually a kind of collective oral poetry, memorised, rendered and promulgated through a series of techniques, most notably formulae. One such formula is a "common epithet" associated with characters, somewhat famously, "cow-eyed" Hera, for Zeus’ wife. Another is, for example, a catalogue, an eldless barrage of names, locations, places, etc. common across many epic oral traditions.

The singer/performer (in Homer’s time there were special bards specifically of Homer’s texts called rhapsodes) would use these formulae to help them construct the flow and meter of the overall poem while rendering. So they basically knew the formulae by heart, knew the general plot outline, and had enough cultural and other vocabulary to be able to reconstruct a long text in a single sitting from memory.

This means that most of the time, every performance was unique, and small details were continually added and altered by every rhapsode / performer. Hence, while the outline remained fairly known, the details have naturally shifted over the years. Hence the mountains of inconsistencies with for instance armour, customs, etc. Even though the story is set in the Bronze age, most dress and probably some of the cultural aspects in general is a mix of stuff contemporary to the time of writing and stuff the Greeks may have thought seemed old to them.

It was, by and large, more important to remember the overall details about what the key characters do than it was to remember what they wore for centuries on. For the purposes of plot, armour is armour after all. (Incidentally, this is why the description of Achiles’ shield in the Illiad is such an interesting example.)

Given all of this, today it’s generally accepted that "Homer" was not a singular poet of tremendous gifts who bequeathed the world two immense poems, but rather a name for a collective author. This hypothesis was borne out by Milman Parry and Albert B. Lord in their research in Yugoslavian oral poetry in the early XX century, where they found living examples of singers able to, in several sittings, render some 12k+ verses from memory.

This is by no means unique, and similarities have since been found across cultures, though, perhaps, not to that extent. Blues is, for example, full of constant epithets and other formulae that make constructing and reconstructing songs or indeed improvising them in a call-and-response manner much easier. As long as you have the cultural cachet and knowledge of the building blocks, that is.

Re: An Uncomplicated Man – A review of The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan

#180
On a constructive note, Wilson left not unattested how Homer should be performed in her view, by herself – link: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bfDgXqd54CU – and who Americaʼs Homer may be, namely Tracy Chapman – link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48913656 about https://www.plough.com/articles/who-is-americas-homer –, so Nolan now knows whom to ask when he needs a script next time, for an Ilias movie.
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