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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#101

Post by Xelbair »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

>It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter.

Then who should? Government, where each implementation strips away rights to privacy - which in some countries, including mine, are a constitutional right? Where it expands powers of government to track everyone's activity online - and remember we're one election away from total policy shift(just like with latest US elections)?

Free market? The profitable solution is, depending on environment - either ignore the problem(profit from ads served to children, no extra work necessary), or strip away all privacy (to filter out bots and get paid more per ad).

The sad reality is that "parent should take responsibility" is least bad option available, and takes into the account individual development of a child.

Even creation of a highly regulated child only internet creates more problems - as now that becomes a highly profitable target for bad actors(both individual abusers, and companies trying to serve ads)

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#102

Post by sevenzero »

inigyou wrote: post #94
sevenzero wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a kid, you have responsibility for that kid. In Germany we have a term "Aufsichtspflicht" for this, which roughly translates to duty of supervision. Up to a certain age of the kid parents will be made responsible for damages your kid caused. One pretty funny example of that was a kid spending 1000s of Euros on a MMORPG because the MMO offered a payment option that allowed people to pay through their phone bi…

¿What are those ways?

A small example would be to set the device into "kiosk mode" which many companies use for their employee devices too. Prevent app installs, check what pages ur kids visit with their browsers and whatnot. Just make sure to be open about it so you don't hurt your kids by violating their privacy and trust towards you. Hell we even got parents having their kids take air tags with them so the parents know where they are.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#103

Post by LeBit »

K0nserv wrote: post #24
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

That makes the most sense.

And, that public key of yours must be used only on given platforms. You want to participate on Facebook or Reddit, then you use that public key to prove who you are. Which platforms require verification is another issue.

But it should still be legal and allowed to access conventional forums, Usenet , tor accessible discord servers without having to prove who you are.

Otherwise , the right to organize is over and we effectively live in an authoritarian regime .

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#104

Post by usrnm »

perpetuallunch wrote: post #59
K0nserv wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

I’m from The Government, and I’m here to help. One not entirely inaccurate definition of government is a loose agglomeration of third parties. Or, less flatteringly, a stupendously large way too loose agglomeration of way too many third parties welding way too much power way too arbitrarily.

The difference here is that in a functioning democracy people have some control over their government. All the institutions are specifically built to be transparent and work for the public good, at least, in some sense of the word. A corporation, especially a monopoly doesn't care what you think, you have no control over it and the only thing that really matters to them is their bottom line. Are governments perfect? Of course not. Are random corpos better? Again, of course not.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#107

Post by Vespasian »

0x696C6961 wrote: post #85
K0nserv wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

This is scary though too. If the gov managed a key server like this, almost all companies would start requiring it. But this effectively gives the gov a very easy way to lock you out of everything.

This is really nothing new and has always be the case It's not possible to tech yourself out of a political problem.

So if there is something being done we should choose a solution that has at least some accountability to the general public (through elected representatives).

The alternative is Google, Apple etc where almost anyone has exactly zero influence and the government can still block as they like.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#109

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

nxm wrote: post #79
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've done a great job identifying the three main options and why two of them (parents, censorship-by-default) just will not work. That leaves regulation; the only way we will prevent children—or anyone —from coming to harm is to stop companies from producing this harmful content in the first place. Either that, or just accept the harm.

Who decides what is harm? An unelected bureaucrat? Now you’re going into censorship area

No, I'd prefer elected representatives to do that, in the same way they've decided on all the other existing harms we legislate for.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#110

Post by sevenzero »

owbt wrote: post #60
inigyou wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should they do about it?

Who? The lawmakers? I believe banning children up to a certain age from having Internet-enabled mobile devices is a good starting point, and both child protection services and law enforcement services should fully cooperate with parents in enforcing that ban. If you see a kid smoking a cigarette or taking drugs, you know parents have failed somewhere along the road and it would be preferable if the government could s…

This is reasonable up to the point of lawmakers suddenly deeming rainbow flags just as bad as drugs (Russia as an example). Your example may work in well intended countries but completely ignores that a country can VERY easily shift into a regime that does not have good ethics abusing these kinda laws.
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