A lot of people are fed up with uncontrolled migration and are drifting to parties that promise this to stop or be reverted. No need of US interference to explain it. And they choose democratic way to try and reverse it
EU now fears US interference in European elections
31–40 of 62 posts
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#32Aaaand flagged.
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#33As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations). I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. The…
Vance's support of Orbán; Musk's support of Reform, AfD, and other far-right parties across Europe; Thiel's shadow interference through his "gatherings" with other countries' elites while being explicitly anti-democracy. Many other oligarchs are likely involved with different levels of visibility and effort for this push, I wouldn't be surprised if Zuck is part of it by providing the machinery of social media while keeping a safe distance from the more overt acts.
It's a whole concerted effort by many figures in the US political landscape (in this I include moneyed elites) to tear down democratic pillars of European countries.
The USA already had massive issues with corporate power in politics, the Trump admin just made the merge of state and corporate interests even deeper and more overt. The pressure has only been building up the past 10 years, the Biden years were a short respite of a movement ongoing for longer.
Unfortunately we will only see how this ship continues to sail after the US's midterms, it will be the defining moment to see if American society can find ways to right the ship or if it's going to be cement the plunge into the abyss...
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#34As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations). I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. The…
> I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. No,the difference is not in mere political misalignments. You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time thr…
> You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time threatening with annexation and military interventions.
I think the first part of this is political alignment right? What are "fascist and extremist political parties" is not politics with a very different alignment?
I think your second point is a really good one though, the Barack Obama and J D Vance examples are both soft power usage. But in the case of Vance, it comes alongside a state using military force to bully its way through issues, that's a very significant context difference I didn't really acknowledge earlier.
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#35A lot of people are fed up with uncontrolled migration and are drifting to parties that promise this to stop or be reverted. No need of US interference to explain it. And they choose democratic way to try and reverse it
They are driven by conservative media explaining to them the enemy is the other (brown, or trans, or plain woman) instead of the ruling class.
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. No,the difference is not in mere political misalignments. You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time thr…
> You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time threatening with annexation and military interventions. I think the first part of this is political alignment right? What are "fascist and extremist political parties" is not politics with a very different alignment? I think your second point is a really good one though…
> I think the first part of this is political alignment right?
No, no it's not a mere misalignment. Opposing fascism supported on dehumanizing policies such as racial supremacy is not a mere difference in opinion, as is pushes to invade and annex other countries.
WW2 wasn't fought because people happened to disagree. The problem with Nazi Germany and imperial Japan was not a whimsical difference of opinion. Let's not pretend that the US is any different.
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#37As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations). I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. The…
> As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations).
As an European citizen, the whole Brexit thing was rather obviously fueled by a massive state-sponsored disinformation campaign aimed at destabilizing the UK in particular and the EU in general.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...
No wonder that anyone not aligned with said state actors would voice concerns about the whole sad state of affairs.
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have both US governments and US oligarchs openly pushing and directly promoting fascist and extremist political parties, while at the same time threatening with annexation and military interventions. I think the first part of this is political alignment right? What are "fascist and extremist political parties" is not politics with a very different alignment? I think your second point is a really good one though…
> I think the first part of this is political alignment right? No, no it's not a mere misalignment. Opposing fascism supported on dehumanizing policies such as racial supremacy is not a mere difference in opinion, as is pushes to invade and annex other countries. WW2 wasn't fought because people happened to disagree. The problem with Nazi Germany and imperial Japan was not a whimsical difference of opinion. Let's not…
> Opposing fascism supported on dehumanizing policies such as racial supremacy is not a mere difference in opinion, as is pushes to invade and annex other countries.
I'm not sure, I'd say two things:
- I think "mere difference of opinion" suggests disagreements can't be on serious issues, as if there's something trivial about "x things racism is acceptable a y doesn't". I don't know that I'd agree? Differences in opinion can be on major issues and are important. - Pushing to invade and annex countries is a real thing, which I said in my comment above, I don't know that interferences like Vance in Hungary are pushing to invade countries though? Other things the US doss might be, but I'm not sure it comes into play here?
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#39A lot of people are fed up with uncontrolled migration and are drifting to parties that promise this to stop or be reverted. No need of US interference to explain it. And they choose democratic way to try and reverse it
They are driven by conservative media explaining to them the enemy is the other (brown, or trans, or plain woman) instead of the ruling class.
You can't imagine any situation where the people are seeing this for themselves? It must be that they're brainwashed by conservative media?
Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections
#40[flagged]
This is such a lazy comment. How is the EU changing? How is it changing to be closer to which part of South America? South America is changing so do you mean how it was or are they converging? The EU has expanded in the last 40 years but I don't imagine that's what you mean. What do you mean?
Basically, losing any sense of autonomy and becoming US's hinterland. It has moved a lot in this direction from an economic and geopolitical PoV over the past 40 years, now we're seeing the electoral process being subverted by American interests.