Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

pcmag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 206 posts

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#191

Post by illithid0 »

barnabee wrote: post #109
illithid0 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, I love GrapheneOS and see it as a cornerstone of digital privacy software. I have supported the project financially for years. On the other hand, I'm worried that the publicity will only make explicit targets out of GrapheneOS users, and that you would only be using it "if you have something to hide".

The best solution to this is if orders of magnitude more people start using GrapheneOS. Once it becomes fairly normal it's no longer a viable reason to target someone. With this publicity and the coming Motorola phones, there's reason to be at least a little optimistic.

Agreed. I will certainly be keeping my current device around and will buy the newest one possible for longevity.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#192

Post by lorreyfum »

pc86 wrote: post #83
lorreyfum wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What is the point you're trying to make?

I know it’s weird for the tendies here, but both sides have to follow the law and respect the law. Not a hard concept. That’s why we have laws. If you don’t like the laws where you are, move to a place that has laws compatible with your views.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#193

Post by vazark »

RegW wrote: post #88
Zak wrote: post #49

This probably doesn't hold up legally, but it does hold up logically: if the reason a border search exemption exists is to prevent importation of material that is unlawful to import, wiping a storage device also fulfills that purpose.

It would seem that the officer was searching for evidence of a crime, not to prevent importation. However, did that evidence really exist? And if it did, was it for something else? Perhaps, the guy just worried about something far more mundane being discovered? We shall never know. Think Schrodinger's password.

The problem is, with the access that comes with the real PIN, you can always plant stuff that didn't exist before

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#194

Post by mindslight »

brnt wrote: post #181
mindslight wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. All of these comments talking about the legality are completely missing the point. At most this indicts the current laws , rather than the person who was illegally and immorally surveilled, searched, detained, coerced, and now harassed through the legal system. Anybody standing on a narrow view of "but this is just the law" while we have an outright hostile government that actively hates our individual lib…

> Anybody standing on a narrow view of "but this is just the law" It's a pity Americans must learn empirically rather than from history books how fascism operates.

Hey now, you can't just go casually dropping F-bombs like that in polite conversation. "Fascism" is something terrible from history, highly specific to that time, and can never happen again unless the people involved loudly proclaim themselves Fascists. And even then it's questionable if they would have the right to use the trademark! In fact I'm not even sure if I believe that the events that happened in Italy during the early 20th century should be called fascism. The word means something really really bad (though I'm not sure what), and we shouldn't speak ill of the dead.

What's happening in the US is something completely new, different, and totally worth seeing what it can accomplish this time. Think of all those sci-fi "dystopias" with a privileged ruling class living lives of comfort and luxury, and not having to think about the filthy underclass. Good vibes are what I'm here for.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#195

Post by mannanj »

pbgcp2026 wrote: post #187
mannanj wrote: post #123

If only these phones could have a feature where you can enter a mode to encrypt segments of data with different encryption keys, all able to be unlocked still by one single master encryption key that you could also enter at any time. Then when in travel, and about to pass a border, you enter that selective mode. You can enter a different password as the proxy to unlock the phone in this bare minimal data mode. The ag…

This feature exists today – it's called "leave your gadgets at home". S3 bucket and / or laptop with Tails on USB stick is all you need.

Well yes it exists, however it's too high friction IMO for me to use - and I'm already a software guy. And I mean the data at the application level too - it wouldn't be practical for me to have to keep removing apps and data since they don't integrate with this at an OS level and with your proposal we would have to manually sync/remove data from S3.

Or I suppose we would program something to make this. Just saying, doesn't exist today it seems but would be valuable for us.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#196

Post by Magicrafter13 »

brnt wrote: post #181
mindslight wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. All of these comments talking about the legality are completely missing the point. At most this indicts the current laws , rather than the person who was illegally and immorally surveilled, searched, detained, coerced, and now harassed through the legal system. Anybody standing on a narrow view of "but this is just the law" while we have an outright hostile government that actively hates our individual lib…

> Anybody standing on a narrow view of "but this is just the law" It's a pity Americans must learn empirically rather than from history books how fascism operates.

I want to engage with this comment in good faith, but I'm confused on what is trying to be said.

Per American Heritage Dictionary 5th Edition:

> A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Looking at this case so far; - we have not observed any dictatorial behavior, - this is unrelated to economics, - we have not observed any violent suppression, - we have not observed any actions based on nationalism/race,

given these facts, at least by this definition of fascism, there appears to be none yet present in this case.

What history books or definition should Americans learn from that would lead them to view what transpired as fascism, and how should that inform their beliefs/decisions differently than how they are currently informed about the situation?

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#197

Post by mindslight »

Magicrafter13 wrote: post #196
brnt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anybody standing on a narrow view of "but this is just the law" It's a pity Americans must learn empirically rather than from history books how fascism operates.

I want to engage with this comment in good faith, but I'm confused on what is trying to be said. Per American Heritage Dictionary 5th Edition: > A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Looking at this case so far; -…

> we have not observed any dictatorial behavior, - this is unrelated to economics, - we have not observed any violent suppression, - we have not observed any actions based on nationalism/race,

So the main thing tying your comment together is that you have not been observing? This does not seem particularly "good faith", nor does it make for an interesting or productive conversation.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#198

Post by br0ceph »

mannanj wrote: post #123

If only these phones could have a feature where you can enter a mode to encrypt segments of data with different encryption keys, all able to be unlocked still by one single master encryption key that you could also enter at any time. Then when in travel, and about to pass a border, you enter that selective mode. You can enter a different password as the proxy to unlock the phone in this bare minimal data mode. The ag…

if u read the grapheneos tweet about this, any form of minimal account puts all ur other accounts at risk. agents should never get any form of code execution on ur device, even from a sandbox account. the linux kernel is not secure, and they can just hold the device till the next public disclosure or use one of their existing cellebrite attacks.

duress password to shutdown instead of wipe could be an option.

duress password to restore to snapshot, effectively wiping all data after snapshot, is another option, as it would be hard to know what happened. all the now "free space" gets overwritten with prng.

when entering the duress password, maybe grapheneos needs to put some UI theatre, like saying battery low, shutting down... so the agents think the phone is just shutting down due to low battery.

another theatre could be a fake shutdown, that appears to not startup again... just wipe and kexec a fake kernel that just mimics a dead phone, till the batter actually dies. any attempts by the agents to charge the phone , is met with a fake boot and a charging error. This is just a phone with a bad battery, nothing to see here.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#199

Post by AlexeyBelov »

lorreyfum wrote: post #192
pc86 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point you're trying to make?

I know it’s weird for the tendies here, but both sides have to follow the law and respect the law. Not a hard concept. That’s why we have laws. If you don’t like the laws where you are, move to a place that has laws compatible with your views.

> I know it’s weird for the tendies here

Review the guidelines.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#200

Post by Magicrafter13 »

mindslight wrote: post #197
Magicrafter13 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to engage with this comment in good faith, but I'm confused on what is trying to be said. Per American Heritage Dictionary 5th Edition: > A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Looking at this case so far; -…

> we have not observed any dictatorial behavior, - this is unrelated to economics, - we have not observed any violent suppression, - we have not observed any actions based on nationalism/race, So the main thing tying your comment together is that you have not been observing? This does not seem particularly "good faith", nor does it make for an interesting or productive conversation.

This is incorrect as this is not what I said.

I stated 'we' not 'I'. And I did not imply that we haven't been observing, I was stating historically that, with all we have observed about this duress pin case, we have yet to observe any of the listed things happening.

If one believes we have, in fact, observed any of the above things taking place - rather than complaining about an uninteresting or unproductive conversation - one should contribute evidence to the contrary, which would be productive by informing everyone here.

Post reply on HN