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The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

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Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#381

Post by thisislife2 »

Grombobulous wrote: post #256
thisislife2 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, they can still pay the $400 and try to resell it for higher. And then buy a cheaper Android when they finally realise being in debt for making a fashion statement is stupid.

I don't think this is about Android versus Apple, there are definitely Android phones sold on credit and there are definitely high-end expensive Android phones out there (Samsung Galaxy Z Fold8 Ultra).

When it comes to smartphones, there are only two practical options - ios and Android - and amongst both, only Android based smartphones are available really cheap (there are Android smartphones that retail for $100 too) - that is the only context in which Android was mentioned.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#382

Post by thisislife2 »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #278
thisislife2 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone was as rational as you, Americans wouldn't be living in debt that most cannot afford. Most Indians have a healthy fear of debt, and that is why the iPhone doesn't have a larger share of the mobile phone market here as it really is unaffordable to most Indians (as it is for many in America). Americans however have accepted debt as a normal part of their lifestyle. When a rich man says poor people shouldn't…

This is not why Americans are in debt. If you really think this you understand so little. That rich man was born into wealth, so he has no concept of the lives of poor people.

I wasn't making a general statement on the American poor (poverty and debt can turn into a vicious cycle, sometimes one has no choice but to borrow and there are complex political factors at play too that is driving American poverty), and only on what we are discussing - Poor Americans who don't mind getting into debt to buy an iPhone (or some other luxury item) even when affordable alternatives are available. You can't really disagree with me that it is poor financial judgement to give into your wants over your actual practical needs, when you can't afford to do so.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#383

Post by jedberg »

Grombobulous wrote: post #374
jedberg wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in this case you're not paying any extra. In fact it's cheaper to lease and then own an iPhone with this program because of the time value of money. It's an interest free loan for 2/3 of the price.

It’s not cheaper compared to the alternative of keeping the phone beyond the lease period.

Yes it is, because of the way they have structured the program. This is not like a car lease.

With a car lease, the total of payments plus residual is more than the cash purchase price. That is how the financing company makes money. But in the case of Apple, the total of the lease payments plus the residual is exactly equal to the cash price.

Apple is eating the loss on the financing, for some reason. Probably what is happening is their lease provider is being given a discount on the price, so they keep the difference. Apple probably believes they will sell more phones this way.

But this is great for you the buyer, because it means instead of spending your cash now, you spend it over three years. And since the money has less buying power after three years because of inflation, it's technically cheaper for you to spread out the payments.

Especially if you put the rest of the money in the bank and earn interest on it!

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#384

Post by rsynnott »

GolfPopper wrote: post #182
Mistletoe wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth are we leasing phones now???

I'm a little confused on why anyone would pay this much for a phone. (Although if you consider it conspicuous consumption that happens to work as a phone, I can believe that.)

Eh. I mean, I don’t particularly get it either, but look at what people spend on cars, say. It actually is not a silly amount, in those terms.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#385

Post by rsynnott »

Aurornis wrote: post #161
dzonga wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you overestimate the financial health of most Americans. most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population.

The median US household has a net worth of $200,000. Even a 50th percentile US household is very wealthy by global standards. Credit card statistics are heavily manipulated because it's easy to make them sound terrible. I don't know which factoid specifically you're referring to, but the studies about "X percent of Americans couldn't handle an emergency expense without putting it on a credit card" often use tricks li…

I’d assume that net worth is mostly housing and/or retirement accounts, and thus not really available to pay off credit cards.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#386

Post by lotsofpulp »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #371
lotsofpulp wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, lets remove the option of refined sugar, alcohol, saturated fats, detached single family homes (due to it resulting in individual cars, the leading cause of injury and death, and expenses that leads to "debt slavery"), etc. Also, no more leasing/renting cars, or really any kind of borrowing at all, as people should not have the option to become liable in the future, for anything. Because if a $1,000 to $2,000…

You’re being sarcastic, but I actually kind of agree. Not that these options should be removed, but that they should be priced according to their costs to society. You see that with alcohol and cigarettes in developed countries. Leases should be more tightly regulated and require full coverage insurance. It already works like that for cars. Borrowing is fine insofar as the payments or debt don’t interfere with your a…

>Leases should be more tightly regulated and require full coverage insurance. It already works like that for cars.

Not by law, but because the lender requires it. In this case, the lender doesn’t. There is no evil or not evil, it’s just a business decision based on the value of the collateral and likelihood of loss.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#387

Post by frmersdog »

harvey9 wrote: post #342
frmersdog wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely wish I had done so when I lost my job at the beginning of the pandemic. I've dumped so much money into a vehicle that's falling apart, which I've driven probably less than 25k miles since. If you can't justify car ownership with your income, they're a money pit.

My car is fully owned and justified by my commute taking 3x longer by bus. Time saved is as important a measure as miles driven.

So was mine, but time saved driving didn't justify the amount of maintenance I would have had to do on my car/sanity with 5 min in car + 2 hours on a coach vs 50 minutes fighting interstate traffic + paying for parking.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#388

Post by rsynnott »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #247
paxys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

I would have thought this was about Tax. I'm sure its different in every country, but I believe a lease is very different to purchasing hardware.

That is largely only relevant to businesses (where it may indeed be very different). This seems to be a consumer programme.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#389

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

wolvoleo wrote: post #380
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some upgrades are meh, occasionally I want one thing. Like next upgrade I really want a higher optical zoom than 3x. But I think unlike leasing vehicles, where the vehicle has the same power (approximately and within usable limits) the new phones bring a new battery. If swappable battery was a thing everywhere; that would further depress the sale of new phones.

Is Apple going higher with optical then? Samsung has been going back with their optical zoom, from 10x to 5x and I heard they might even go back to 3x :'(

Apple latest is 8x I think

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#390

Post by drdexebtjl »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #386
drdexebtjl wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being sarcastic, but I actually kind of agree. Not that these options should be removed, but that they should be priced according to their costs to society. You see that with alcohol and cigarettes in developed countries. Leases should be more tightly regulated and require full coverage insurance. It already works like that for cars. Borrowing is fine insofar as the payments or debt don’t interfere with your a…

>Leases should be more tightly regulated and require full coverage insurance. It already works like that for cars. Not by law, but because the lender requires it. In this case, the lender doesn’t. There is no evil or not evil, it’s just a business decision based on the value of the collateral and likelihood of loss.

A decision can be purely logical and impersonal and still be evil.

Only poorly written villains from fiction do evil things because they enjoy harming people.

Evil actions in real life stem from systems in which they are completely justifiable.

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