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Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

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Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#111

Post by seanmcdirmid »

20k wrote: post #107
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you didn’t have RAG enabled and it wasn’t putting the paper in its context for your prompt? I find it hard to believe that anything but the most commonly published papers/code would exist directly in model weights.

I've seen: 1. AI models frequently output large chunks of code which are plagiarised. In one specific case it was code for walking the stack, that was a clear mix of two original sources that I was able to find with changed variable names, but the structure was identical and switched from the first to the second halfway through 2. AI models plagiarising stack overflow answers word for word, quite recently about the r…

I just want to make sure that you saw those things with pure context isolation and AI wasn’t just doing a search to grab the content directly and throw it into the context of your prompt. You’d be surprised how often I’ve heard these claims and it turns out they were just using an agent with RAG enabled.

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#112

Post by undersuit »

MASNeo wrote: post #71
Cynddl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is ACM focusing on licensing. A non profit would not be able to pay ACM for access. Hence why this policy is hypocritical: it gives more power to the larger players and undermines smaller actors in the field who have fewer resources.

Non Profit != No Money A non profit could well pay, and there are plenty of reasons frontier models should be managed by non profit. After all, why allow a for profit to benefit from free contributions?

A non-Profit like OpenAI? Oh wait I guess that can change.

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#113

Post by brookst »

20k wrote: post #53
bonoboTP wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright protects against reprinting or reproducing the wording and expression, not using the idea expressed in there in novel contexts.

AI reproduces copyrighted work exactly in many cases, so it clearly infringes copyright in this sense The output of it is also a derivative work, and derivative works also infringe copyright. Its only not a problem if you ignore copyright entirely Humans are the only entities that get to enjoy special idea-learning-exemptions, not AI

Can you point me to the statute that makes it ok for humans to learn from copyrighted work, but forbids AI? I’ll wait.

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#114

Post by kannanvijayan »

arjie wrote: post #95
Cynddl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is ACM focusing on licensing. A non profit would not be able to pay ACM for access. Hence why this policy is hypocritical: it gives more power to the larger players and undermines smaller actors in the field who have fewer resources.

Everybody gives more power to the larger players. You won't work for me for $10/hr but you'll work for a guy who has more money for more. There's nothing wrong with that. Money is just a fungible unit representing value offered.

I think your example hinges more on the fact that $10/hr is a desperation wage. It's not enough to buy you a life where you're not stepped on by others. The further up that chain you move the more other things start to matter, at least for most people.

If you're offering me $300/hr and the other guy is offering me $400/hr, a whole lot of things start to matter more than the differential.

That gets at the "fungibility" notion you refer to. Money has the same nominal value everywhere, but different real value based on how much of it you already have. Which is to say that the marginal value of money drops pretty precipitously several times at certain thresholds that relate to the particulars of the economy (when you can afford to eat, when you can afford a house, when you can afford to not work anymore, and so on).

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#115

Post by throwaway27448 »

joshka wrote: post #83
Cynddl wrote: post #32

As a researcher with many articles in the ACM library, I have to say this is a masterclass in hypocrisy. Obviously, lawyers can decipher the terms of ACM publishing contracts and Creative Commons licences to determine if this will be acceptable or not. But ACM is not a company, it's a non-profit founded in 1947 to represent scientists. I would be surprised if a majority of ACM members were to say yes should we ask th…

How do you square away the idea that you do science for the increase in knowledge of human kind, but then say that a particular use of that knowledge is verboten? I get the copyright aspect of this and I'm not arguing that here. I'm more asking about the moral / ethical idea of choosing who can benefit from your science. Obviously there are the moral / ethical arguments about AI in general here to weigh against - tho…

> but then say that a particular use of that knowledge is verboten?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Without material values, you will be lost and confused.

Granted, the ACM is hardly a bastion of anything but self interest and greed.

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#116

Post by throwaway27448 »

joshka wrote: post #92
Cynddl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. Unfortunately, academic knowledge is widely ‘verboten’ already. Everything under paywall, researchers having to pay up to $10,000 to publish in open access in some venues, rare books unavailable even to top universities. Access to knowledge and information is increasingly difficult for everyone. That said, what matters here is the social contract, what do I bring to society and what do we get from tech…

Thanks for the reply here. I guess I have some perspectives on a bunch of this. I'm for open sharing of academic work for all (but I'm not an academic, so my perspective is a consumer), so inferring your perspective here I think we agree on that. I maintain many open source (MIT/Apache2 licensed) libraries, and I've also worked in big tech (Amazon, OpenAI). I believe both in the idea of collective commons but also in…

Anything short of free access to the acm would ensure I'll fight ti burn down the acm instead. Not that they ever asked or cared what their members think. The organization can either choose to side with humanity or against it

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#117

Post by nearlyepic »

aatd86 wrote: post #65
layer8 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty clear that the premise won’t be becoming reality.

Well, once there is no more jobs, or once a large enough number of people are made redundant, it will mechanically happen. Future is all about research and entertainment. That is why tiktok stars and soccer players get so much money. All that being based on DARPA research, I mean the internet. People just want to have fun. Du pain et des jeux.

> Well, once there is no more jobs, or once a large enough number of people are made redundant, it will mechanically happen.

Ha. Are you new here?

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#118

Post by jval43 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #100
Cynddl wrote: post #32

As a researcher with many articles in the ACM library, I have to say this is a masterclass in hypocrisy. Obviously, lawyers can decipher the terms of ACM publishing contracts and Creative Commons licences to determine if this will be acceptable or not. But ACM is not a company, it's a non-profit founded in 1947 to represent scientists. I would be surprised if a majority of ACM members were to say yes should we ask th…

I’m pretty sure most people who have papers in the ACM digital library already have “preprints” in other freely accessible locations, especially for papers written in the last two decades. LLMS have been able to search/find most of my papers for long time now. The peer review system was broken before AI, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

My ACM papers are published in full on my website. Not preprints. In fact thats the only reason I have a website, just in case someone actually wants to read them.

The copyright agreement (actually copyright assignment/transfer) with ACM has had a carve-out for this case in it for a while, but it has to be a personal website.

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#119

Post by jval43 »

It was so close! I could already see the end of all the predatory publishing and flourishing of open-access. Some even required by law. Knowledge was finally going to be free.

But no, it will presumably get much worse as LLMs are inserted into this equation as yet another and new gatekeeper.

(Disclaimer: I have publications with ACM, non open-access. And ACM wasn't even too bad, it's the others that give me pause.)

Re: Now is the time to give LLMs access to the ACM digital library

#120

Post by puelocesar »

aatd86 wrote: post #68
PunchyHamster wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, we are not, so far it is just concentrating wealth and power in smaller and smaller subset of people

Yes and then continue your reasoning... Is this sustainable? What do you think it leads to?

Major social chaos, economic meltdown and extreme crackdown on dissent by ultra facist government powered by palantir surveillance.
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