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Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

anthropic.com

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Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So $1-10k in Chinese model time, thus why we must ban them.

If a Chinese model can do it for $1-10K, then why hasn't one? Why have all the mathematical (and now cryptographic) breakthroughs come from OpenAI and Anthropic? Is it possibly because the Chinese models are so benchmaxxed they can't make novel discoveries?

For one thing they are extremely GPU constrained due to export controls, so it’s unlikely a priority compared to training

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#143
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think knowing what you want (and being able to articulate it with adequate specificity, and detecting when processes drift away from it) is a real skill/field of expertise. I just don't think it's specific to interfacing with "AI."

I almost entirely agree with this. However, after coding quite a few large projects with LLM assistance, I can say with certainty that there is some form of "art" at play with regards to structuring requests for LLMs. However, this "art" is not so much about how to present a given request to the LLM, but rather guestimating what the scope of the next chunk of work should be to balance getting as much out of the model…

Hypothesis: Good Jenga players will make good coding-assistant prompters.

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#144
post #83
post #22

I find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good". Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine: > A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was st…

In toying with VS Code or other 'agent harnesses' I'm always annoyed to find very long verbose system prompts "You are CoPilot. You are an expert. You can do anything you put your mind to..." and on and on. The token cost is amortized for longer conversations, but I find it bothersome that there's all this implicit instruction I didn't write or am now obligated to understand. I make a custom agent prompt with "Defer…

I suspect that kind of prompt is vestigial of an early LLM marketing strategy. It wants to make the LLM seem like a trainable consciousness.

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#145
post #22

I find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good". Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine: > A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was st…

Been skeptical for quite some time that "using AI" is a real skill/genuine field of expertise. I think I need to start sharing that skepticism more loudly and publicly! (I'll caveat that by saying I think machine learning fundamentals are useful for evaluating any estimator. And an ML background can be good to give one an appreciation of how hard some tasks are to estimate, such as machine translation, summarization,…

I think we still have a solid control lever on the quality of code we can get AI to generate. Using things like linters and code style checkers, as well as setting up the markdown documentation to guide the agent to generating consistent code will certainly generate different code than just prompting.

Similarly there was an example of edit: Terence (not Eric) Tao chatting with an agent attempting to solve a math problem. "Using AI" means applying your expertise to interact with it as you would a high level colleague. 2 experts in a field don't need to have perfect english and a bloated prompt, they have a massive education/experience common background to fall back on.

It does appear that anthropic in particular is attempting to create a more common experience across expertise levels, but in the current landscape an expert and a novice are unlikely to get the same results. But that does seem to be the goal...

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#146
post #76
post #22

I find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good". Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine: > A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was st…

Funnily enough, I grew tired of having to do that myself and sort of automated it by triggering calls to the same (or smarter) model, with the recent agent actions, turns, and outputs, and the user’s last n and first x messages. Two triggers: random and some half-reliable spiral / loop detection. The spined off has instructions to check what the agent is doing, compare it to what it’s supposed to do, and either offer…

Can you explain how you piped recent agent actions/turns/outputs? I was looking into this yesterday and tried playing around with streaming json, including hooks, but i (really Claude) would need to write a parser (prob with jq) to filter the noise. Was thinking we tail -f that and select whatever we care about. Kind of an observer to catch such spiraling.

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#147
post #22

I find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good". Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine: > A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was st…

With smarter models, Anthropic recommends laying off on giving it too much precise hand-holding, too. Early r/promptengineering had a bunch of the craziest prompts that usually did almost nothing or nothing at all. The subreddit turned into a place where every post was trying to sell some vibe-coded website "product." Context management is still important, though. If you get to a certain amount of context, things sta…

Prompt engineering was deprecated around the time Opus-/Codex-class models dropped imo. Replaced by skills up until about opus 4.5/6 dropped. Pinned model to Opus 4.6 slug in ENV.ANTHROPIC_MODEL, disabled the adaptive thinking thing, and saw my skills start causing degradation

Only ones I use today are for very specific quirks (eg wiredtiger/mongodb 8+ incompatible with ext4/Linux 6.19+ specifically causing segfaults. Have a 20 line mongo skill that says as much. Pinned docker container to mongo 7, can prob delete it now)

I spent a few days reading up on the docs for these things, hook lifecycles, tried writing a few, but they never work as documented, or the documentation changes so frequently that whatever you built is deprecated by the time you get it humming.

Now if I have some non-trivial unit of work, I basically iterate on spec in plan mode then put it on auto and let it rip. Way better results with Fable. jury out on Opus 5, but no regression like 4.7/8

Usually it's just echo "do this lil thing then pr closing issue 123" --model sonnet --effort low. Works well enough, sonnet 5 low is a workhorse and quite resourceful in a good way when things go sideways; doesn't cheat its way out IME

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#148
post #22

I find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good". Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine: > A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was st…

To quote - what I found to be - an absolute zinger from another trending thread on here just 6 hours ago: > Typical users run software written by atypical users. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49084936 This extends to everything. Anthropic has a few thousand engineers, but millions of (also engineer) users. Entire business can be built on niches that are at most a few week pet project for a team there, that can…

Totally. Ralph wiggum was added to every big shop's stdlib (harness?) just a couple weeks after it dropped. That simple iterative workflow basically underpins all of the notable/novel achievements of agentic coding or whatever.

I'm sure many more examples in the "official marketplaces" for mcp/skills/what have you

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#149
post #22

I find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good". Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine: > A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was st…

Been skeptical for quite some time that "using AI" is a real skill/genuine field of expertise. I think I need to start sharing that skepticism more loudly and publicly! (I'll caveat that by saying I think machine learning fundamentals are useful for evaluating any estimator. And an ML background can be good to give one an appreciation of how hard some tasks are to estimate, such as machine translation, summarization,…

Plus if or when they do work noticeably better, you'll be able to just ask them to improve your prompts. Because those prompts are discussed heavily online, and are in the training data.

You can do this now. It works alright sometimes. Other times you're reminded that this is largely just reading tea leaves, and you're trying very hard to separate anecdotes from data and not anthropomorphize it.

Re: Discovering Cryptographic Weaknesses with Claude

#150
It looks like the message here is “make sure to use $100k worth of Claude when doing any analysis or evaluation” and the given examples show that prior effort could have been improved or made faster. But to me 100k is an opportunity cost, and there is a possibility that these results are not reproducible, so spending it on some researcher or a grad student would buy you more in a long term. If it was 1k then sure it is worth throwing at a large problem space to find things, like using fuzzing.
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