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Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

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Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#151

Post by xmprt »

dwedge wrote: post #63
xmprt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if I agreed with them I don't like "100%" biased news I can understand why this might seem like a good take to have but sometimes you need 100% biased news because some things are 100% biased. Things like climate change is real or genocide is bad should not be controversial takes. Convincing people that there are two sides to an argument is exactly how you end up with sensationalism and extreme views that push…

I understand and appreciate your point, but takes like brexit are nuanced. They might be overall bad, but they will always have some benefits and in my opinion journalism (especially economic journalism) should explain those benefits even if the point is to show that they are more than cancelled out by the negatives. Without this kind of reporting this is exactly how the Overton window gets moved. I think that when i…

Agreed. But I think newspapers like The Economist have argued points like "Brexit is bad" quite well and it's not very nuanced because however you slice it, it has been catastrophic for the UK unless you're a corporate lawyer who has suddenly gotten a lot of new business.

Saying something deserves nuance because 1 out of 99 experts disagrees is exactly how you end up with increasing measles cases or adding 6 more lanes to a highway.

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#152

Post by wackget »

duxup wrote: post #141

The best news articles I read on sites like NYT and so on are the ones that come weeks or even months after the events. So much more informative.

But then how do you make knee-jerk reactions on social media to vilify those who hold politically opposite views to yours?

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#153

Post by safety1st »

openasocket wrote: post #51

One thing that has really frustrated me with "mainstream media" in the last few years is that the level of effort being put into journalism seems to be on decline. I feel like half of the news articles are just a collection of quotes from officials or politicians in public statements, being regurgitated without any additional effort. Outrageous claims are just taken at face value, or at best just put alongside quotes…

I think a lot of it has to do with the desire and pressure to publish as fast as possible. Online, EVERYTHING is rushed and even published before the facts are known. The story may or may not get updated as the situation develops.

Outside of tech because it affects my work, I've stopped reading online news altogether. There's a bookstore down the road from me which sells the daily and weekend editions of a couple papers. On a slow weekend I'll walk over there, buy the weekend edition of some reputable paper, and peruse it over coffee. The stories are invariably better than anything I see online, as well as in the daily editions. None of this stuff is urgent. I don't need up to the minute. I just need to kill some time, preferably with higher quality information.

Honestly the old ways were better in this case. Just stop reading online news. Grab a weekend edition of a paper when you're bored instead. Couple bucks. No subscription. Better. They haven't changed much.

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#154

Post by protocolture »

daniel_iversen wrote: post #134
bch wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what qualifies as "mainstream media" here, but I feel various public broadcasters have served me well over the years: CBC[0] in Canada, BBC[1] in United Kingdom, NPR[2] in America, ABC[3] in Australia, NHK[4] in Japan... switching around the world also gives reprieve from local politics letting you tune into someone else's local politics practically recreationally, which seems more and more necessary in…

The ABC in Australia feels so opinionated and tilted to the “left” side of politics whenever I’ve watched it on the TV. And it may just have been that news show or the specific host but it makes it not enjoyable to watch when it seems there’s always an “angle” and negative undertones and people constantly having an axe to grind. I’d personally like a bit more neutral news that also leans a little more on the positive…

>The ABC in Australia feels so opinionated and tilted to the “left” side of politics whenever I’ve watched it on the TV. And it may just have been that news show or the specific host but it makes it not enjoyable to watch when it seems there’s always an “angle” and negative undertones and people constantly having an axe to grind. I’d personally like a bit more neutral news that also leans a little more on the positive and inspiring side.

I dont see any bias in their journalism, but they have a tendency to just accept everything at face value. They will also shop around for experts that support their opinions. One person will write an article about housing referring to housing experts, and get one view, and then a few years later another will instead quote a public housing expert getting another view. Theres never any "Lets test the quality of each expert and try and figure out whats true"

4 corners and foreign correspondant however are still absolute top tier journalism. Its a shame they dont apply those standards everywhere.

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#155

Post by apparent »

bch wrote: post #121
openasocket wrote: post #51

One thing that has really frustrated me with "mainstream media" in the last few years is that the level of effort being put into journalism seems to be on decline. I feel like half of the news articles are just a collection of quotes from officials or politicians in public statements, being regurgitated without any additional effort. Outrageous claims are just taken at face value, or at best just put alongside quotes…

I don't know what qualifies as "mainstream media" here, but I feel various public broadcasters have served me well over the years: CBC[0] in Canada, BBC[1] in United Kingdom, NPR[2] in America, ABC[3] in Australia, NHK[4] in Japan... switching around the world also gives reprieve from local politics letting you tune into someone else's local politics practically recreationally, which seems more and more necessary in…

I used to listen to and read NPR. Since about 2015 they've been slipping, and at an increasing rate. After submitting several corrections, none of which were heeded, I have stopped taking them seriously. An outlet that does not correct clear-cut falsehoods is peddling a narrative, not reporting news.

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#156

Post by wolvoleo »

BeetleB wrote: post #96
openasocket wrote: post #51

One thing that has really frustrated me with "mainstream media" in the last few years is that the level of effort being put into journalism seems to be on decline. I feel like half of the news articles are just a collection of quotes from officials or politicians in public statements, being regurgitated without any additional effort. Outrageous claims are just taken at face value, or at best just put alongside quotes…

How much money are you directly paying per month to news organizations? News organizations have been in decline for a few decades because of two reasons: 1. Lack of ad revenue (all vacuumed up by Google) 2. Loss of subscribers because they can get free news online Don't expect quality from people not being paid much.

We have plenty of state funded public news services in Europe but they do the same. Just shallow Reuters copy paste slop.

The real deep dives are hard to find.

And I don't think only money brings quality. Hobbyists tend to do great work especially because they're not making money. For them quality can be a goal. Not getting the most money with the least amount of effort.

A lot of the content and software I value most is by people who are doing it just for fun or because they care.

And the newspaper world in particular was oversaturated. Every little town had one or more local dailies. That was never sustainable in the digital age.

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#158

Post by velcrovan »

dwedge wrote: post #63
xmprt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if I agreed with them I don't like "100%" biased news I can understand why this might seem like a good take to have but sometimes you need 100% biased news because some things are 100% biased. Things like climate change is real or genocide is bad should not be controversial takes. Convincing people that there are two sides to an argument is exactly how you end up with sensationalism and extreme views that push…

I understand and appreciate your point, but takes like brexit are nuanced. They might be overall bad, but they will always have some benefits and in my opinion journalism (especially economic journalism) should explain those benefits even if the point is to show that they are more than cancelled out by the negatives. Without this kind of reporting this is exactly how the Overton window gets moved. I think that when i…

If there were any upsides to brexit I've never heard what they were. (Though, also: not a brit)

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#159

Post by fsckboy »

coatmatter wrote: post #125
josephg wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep this. I’m a paid subscriber to the economist’s podcast. A lot of their journalism is excellent. I really enjoyed the recent Tocqueville road trip. And their coverage of AI a few months ago was great - it was really interesting to hear what AI adoption in companies looks like for non technical people. Yesterday I watched a fabulous piece by the Australian 4 Corners on food fraud in our country. They did forensic r…

Whenever I encounter someone who jumps at the first opportunity to criticise "mainstream media", I ask them what their preferred outlets are. I tend to not get a response, which to me is quite telling.

if mainstream media has gone downhill, why would somebody have a preferred outlet? What's your preferred outlet?

Re: Delayed Gratification – Proud to Be 'Last to Breaking News'

#160

Post by fsckboy »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #146
coatmatter wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I encounter someone who jumps at the first opportunity to criticise "mainstream media", I ask them what their preferred outlets are. I tend to not get a response, which to me is quite telling.

I think a mixture of BBC, cnn, al jazeera, economist, will get a casual reader to a decent spot, and they're all mainstream media. Possibly guardian but emlarhically not their opinion pages (I agree with them, but even so they're gratingly opinionated, hate to think what a die hard conservative will think of them :)

BBC, CNN, and al jazeera are complete trash.

Economist always was good but I have not read it in a while so I can't speak to it. If it has not changed, that would be great.

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