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Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

sebastianraschka.com

41–50 of 125 posts

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#41
post #40

Just tried K3 out for the first time today and it's a legitimate threat. Temporarily (maybe permanently) using it as my daily driver but it's wild how comparable it is to Opus 4.7/4.8 (what's been my go to for a bit now—wrote a quick post on what I found today [1]). [1] https://graybearding.bearblog.dev/kimi-k3-is-insane/

Better than Opus 4.8 on complex tasks but tends to overthink. It found a bunch of bugs and architecture issues that only 5.6 Sol Max and Fable on my C++ projects.

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#43
Genuine question: how reproducible / usable / verifiable are these architectures from the published documentation? Are they similar to PDF/DWG/PSD specifications, where the format look like an open spec at first sight until you attempt to implement it and realize the crucial implementation details are undocumented?

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#44

Genuine question: how reproducible / usable / verifiable are these architectures from the published documentation? Are they similar to PDF/DWG/PSD specifications, where the format look like an open spec at first sight until you attempt to implement it and realize the crucial implementation details are undocumented?

The code is open source, and there probably several different implementations.

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#45

Genuine question: how reproducible / usable / verifiable are these architectures from the published documentation? Are they similar to PDF/DWG/PSD specifications, where the format look like an open spec at first sight until you attempt to implement it and realize the crucial implementation details are undocumented?

Implementing models directly from papers is typically pretty doable (and is of course more straightforward when the full implementation is open sourced). Often there is some amount of specific knowledge, like particular hyperparameters, that is missing and has to be trial and errored by the community, but generally speaking, getting the core model architecture implemented is a reasonable task for most well documented models.

Reproducing the exact training run, however, is basically impossible without the original dataset and training pipeline (here meaning all of the code + infra involved in actually executing the pre and post training loops). Also, it would be exorbitantly expensive to do if you weren't also a lab trying to train a similar model.

But you can still scale the architecture down and experiment as a solo researcher using the published research. There are probably some open source implementations already on GitHub for any given big open model release.

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#46

So, unlike what leaders of western labs labs would like you to believe (that Kimi is just the result of distillation attacks), they are introducing new and novel approaches.

Even if they are distilling, I don't particularly care. Anthropic and others have been distilling copyrighted material by to build these models, largely without permission.

[flagged]

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#47

So, unlike what leaders of western labs labs would like you to believe (that Kimi is just the result of distillation attacks), they are introducing new and novel approaches.

Even if they are distilling, I don't particularly care. Anthropic and others have been distilling copyrighted material by to build these models, largely without permission.

Exactly,let Anthropic get back to training on the New York times.

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#48
post #40

Just tried K3 out for the first time today and it's a legitimate threat. Temporarily (maybe permanently) using it as my daily driver but it's wild how comparable it is to Opus 4.7/4.8 (what's been my go to for a bit now—wrote a quick post on what I found today [1]). [1] https://graybearding.bearblog.dev/kimi-k3-is-insane/

Agreed. Dropped my $200/mo Claude I was saturating for the $100/mo moonshot sub and have no complaints

Plus I can actually see the thinking traces and I’m not getting downgraded/denied by anthropic constsntly…

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#49

So, unlike what leaders of western labs labs would like you to believe (that Kimi is just the result of distillation attacks), they are introducing new and novel approaches.

"Kimi is largely a byproduct of distillation" and "Kimi is introducing new and novel approaches" are not mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure it's clear from the paper how much of the improvement comes from the new approaches. So I wouldn't take the new approaches to be much evidence about whether the distillation attacks occurred.

Re: Kimi K3 Architecture Overview and Notes

#50

Genuine question: how reproducible / usable / verifiable are these architectures from the published documentation? Are they similar to PDF/DWG/PSD specifications, where the format look like an open spec at first sight until you attempt to implement it and realize the crucial implementation details are undocumented?

The architectures are high level concepts and the mechanics usually have enough detail for you to try and implement.

Transformers are very "mendable" in that you can permute the architecture in crazy or random ways, and still basically always end up with get a coherent LLM. The difference comes down to training efficiency, inference efficiency, and usually minor differences in performance.

Hyperparams and stuff, I mean it's standard to do a sweep anyway.

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