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I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

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Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#351

Post by laughing_man »

daishi55 wrote: post #94
theflyingelvis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It almost seems as if you are trolling. Surely we can, at least, agree that the excesses you mention exist only because of those who produce.

They are not trolling. They are stating the simple, undeniable fact that there is more than enough to go around and if we had a more equitable distribution of resources, we could take care of everyone with disabilities 10x over with plenty to spare.

The only reason there's more than enough to go around is people work for the betterment of their own life. If you disconnect the link between work and material comfort that simple, undeniable fact will no longer be fact.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#353

Post by bluefirebrand »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #319
WarmWash wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems your complaint is a lack of recognition, and maybe redistribution would provide vengeance for this injustice. But that is different than "we ought to start giving raises to people who do less work, not more" which is what "skewing the other way" seems to imply.

Maybe we should start requiring companies to pay a percent of wages in equity. That would at least allow workers to share in a company’s success.

Take a few moments to think about how companies would (easily) shift their behavior to avoid this

It wouldn't be too hard I don't think. Avoid having employees by making everything a short term contract / gig style work

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#354

Post by arjie »

Telaneo wrote: post #68
pj_mukh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We have enough excess in society” How are you measuring this? Hopefully something better than stock prices.

The other commentor mentioned food and clothes to you. I'll add that I can get food for free locally (soup kitchen style, although I don't think they actually serve soup) if I really need it. Around 10% of houses in the US are vacant, although I'm sure a fair amount are that for good reasons (shitty locations, old and worn to high hell). This to me sounds like a resource allocation problem and not a lack-of-resources…

Sure, if one ignores constraints then we can do everything. It's like saying that you could find an element in an unsorted array in O(1) if you just pick the right index. Obviously. The part that makes it hard is that you can't pick the right index. Coordination and resource allocation is everything. It's not free. It costs effort just like searching an unsorted array is O(n) worst case. There's no way to not pay the price. Energy has to be expended.

You'll see this if you're ever at sea. You have an infinite amount of fresh water around you. All you have to do is avoid the salt in it.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#355

Post by Telaneo »

nate_meurer wrote: post #346
Telaneo wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are truckloads of perfectly good food and clothes being incinerated every day since that's somehow cheaper for the owners of capital. The excess is there. It's just not ending up in the pockets of those who need it.

Food and clothing are actually an argument against you here. Sure we waste a lot of both, and yet food insecurity is rare in the First World, and lack of clothing is pretty much the least significant part of poverty. Plus, government-forced redistribution reliably increases prices overall due to the increased costs of logistics and administration. There is no free lunch. If you want to argue your point, you have to a…

Pensions probably ought to be reduced/readjusted in accordance with life time expectancy, or some other maths that actually ends up in the green somehow while still allowing those who cannot take care of themselves to live a decent life. I've seen enough rich pensioners (my own grandmother among them...) to come to that conclusion.

The US spends an inordinate amount on healthcare since the system is covered in leeches (17~% of GDP compared to 10~ in Europe).[1] If a significant part of US debt is caused by healthcare costs, then that sounds like a political own-goal. That's not to say the costs in Europe are insignificant. We can probably do better here too.

[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/26746...

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#356

Post by amanaplanacanal »

nate_meurer wrote: post #324
Telaneo wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are producing enough excess that we can spare enough of those things to those who are unable to take care of themselves, and we have for a number of years.

No, we're not. It just seems like there's excess because the costs of running social programs are being paid with runaway debt. Those bills will eventually require settling, and it will become obvious how much excess there really is.

Debt is just accounting, and has nothing to do with whether or not a surplus exists and who gets to consume it. The surplus exists, it doesn't magically appear because of your accounting system.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#357

Post by arjie »

Capitalism does not depend upon self-sufficiency. This sounds like total nonsense. In fact, the obviousness of comparative advantage and the benefits of trade that are common among market economies clearly illustrate that interdependence is a crucial aspect of capitalist societies. In fact, self-sufficiency is a characteristic of socialist groups - all of whom want to run their own farm with their own this and that. Similarly the socialist and communist nations wanted to wall themselves off so that they only produce for themselves inside their borders what they want and so on.

Also what's all this about the body that never breaks. We have insurance schemes because there is uncertainty about the human body. What are annuities? Contract law allows for exemptions for acts of god like if a hurricane hits you.

Listen, this person's life sucks. And it's important that society not abandon them. But that doesn't mean they can talk nonsense. This kind of suffering theology where we believe someone whose life is hard has access to some deep truth has no basis in reality. In fact, I'd argue that their thought is far more likely to be disordered.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#358

Post by amanaplanacanal »

jbritton wrote: post #328
tmnvix wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentives don't disappear at some arbitrary level of taxation. I think you can have both sufficient incentives and more equitable distribution. The frankly obscene levels of wealth concentration we are witnessing suggest that there is a lot of room for refinement. I do find it interesting that a lot of people (not trying to imply that you are one) bang on about incentives while also fighting tooth and nail in favour…

Your tax dollars just go into a cesspool of fraud, corruption, waste, incompetence, distribution to cronies. Money taken and spent badly feels like theft.

If you are saying we should do a better job of keeping track of that, I don't think many would disagree with you.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#359

Post by amanaplanacanal »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #353
yoyohello13 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should start requiring companies to pay a percent of wages in equity. That would at least allow workers to share in a company’s success.

Take a few moments to think about how companies would (easily) shift their behavior to avoid this It wouldn't be too hard I don't think. Avoid having employees by making everything a short term contract / gig style work

So make it apply to those people too. Make them legally employees for this purpose.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#360

Post by Telaneo »

arjie wrote: post #354
Telaneo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other commentor mentioned food and clothes to you. I'll add that I can get food for free locally (soup kitchen style, although I don't think they actually serve soup) if I really need it. Around 10% of houses in the US are vacant, although I'm sure a fair amount are that for good reasons (shitty locations, old and worn to high hell). This to me sounds like a resource allocation problem and not a lack-of-resources…

Sure, if one ignores constraints then we can do everything. It's like saying that you could find an element in an unsorted array in O(1) if you just pick the right index. Obviously. The part that makes it hard is that you can't pick the right index. Coordination and resource allocation is everything. It's not free. It costs effort just like searching an unsorted array is O(n) worst case. There's no way to not pay the…

I didn't mean to imply there aren't any constraints.
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