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I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

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Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#321

Post by ImJamal »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #182
Tade0 wrote: post #102

> Much of modern Western culture, particularly in the United States, was shaped by what sociologist Max Weber called the Protestant work ethic: the belief that hard work, discipline, frugality, and productivity were signs of virtue. I hail from a culture that's decidedly Catholic, but at the same time shares this mindset. To me it has more to do with farming and the culture around it. On a farm you have to earn your…

Well, everyone saw the freeloader class in Catholic countries too - clergy.

I'm under the impression the phrase was used because lay Catholics had more days off work since they wouldn't work on Holy Days. Protestants had significantly less Holy Days to the point where some denominations only avoided working on Sundays. Protestants used this phrase as an insult against Catholics for having more days off work. It had nothing to do with freeloading.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#322

Post by 4fterd4rk »

chneu wrote: post #223
Suzuran wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? In the US, we send a sizable portion of our paychecks to the government's Social Security program so it can provide for us in this exact scenario . The government dictated the terms and we upheld our end of the contract on pain of incarceration. Now it's time for the government to uphold their end.

Technically, SS provides for the next generation. We pay into it to the next generation can use that, not the current one. It's a pyramid scheme meant to pay out early and then die. The math doesn't work if the individual expects to retire on it. It's a great scam.

What a great collection of incorrect right wing talking points!

Look up when benefits began to be paid. The current payments very much and by design pay for the current retirees. The idea that this is some kind of elaborate “scam” when it is one of those things that every other civilized country has figured out is hilarious. Go travel. Go talk to some retirees there. Turn off the Fox News.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#323

Post by nate_meurer »

zem wrote: post #294
techteach00 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about this mythical "excess". I can't afford housing. Millions like me can't. There is no excess. Unless it's being hoarded by the capital class.

I mean, it is very obviously being hoarded by the capital class! there has been tons of writing on the subject, no one can credibly deny that that's what's happening right now.

The wealth of the "capital class", whatever that means, is dwarfed by the debt being run up by governments.

My favorite example: if you confiscated all of the wealth from all of the billionaires in the USA, it would fund the federal government for around six months. If you add state and local governments, those funds would last just weeks.

The rich don't have your money. Your government does, and they're flushing it down the toilet (and bombing Iran).

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#324

Post by nate_meurer »

Telaneo wrote: post #320
hogehoge51 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are failing to analyze the system corectly. "Have enough" is a static steady state. "Produce enough" now and in the future is a dynamic constraint. The mechanism is economic surplus, to have the producers (productive people who produce needed goods and inputs to such) create more than they need. This generally requires increasing and maintaining productivity to have surplus. Once you have a surplus the absolute m…

We are producing enough excess that we can spare enough of those things to those who are unable to take care of themselves, and we have for a number of years.

No, we're not. It just seems like there's excess because the costs of running social programs are being paid with runaway debt. Those bills will eventually require settling, and it will become obvious how much excess there really is.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#325

Post by nate_meurer »

daishi55 wrote: post #94
theflyingelvis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It almost seems as if you are trolling. Surely we can, at least, agree that the excesses you mention exist only because of those who produce.

They are not trolling. They are stating the simple, undeniable fact that there is more than enough to go around and if we had a more equitable distribution of resources, we could take care of everyone with disabilities 10x over with plenty to spare.

If that's true, it's odd that so many social welfare programs across the western world are consuming an ever-growing share of GDP, incurring massive debt, and grinding toward insolvency and collapse. Exactly how much more of our money and labor do you want to take from us in order to continue this madness?

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#326

Post by didibus »

I think what gets lost when we value productivity above everything is community and humanity.

At the end of the day, I just want to be around people who care, having a good time together. Nothing seems worth doing if it doesn't eventually get you that.

I've always seen my "excess productivity" as something to spend building a society where people actually commune together, and where we have each other's backs.

I don't want to walk through a city and see people suffering or living on the street. I never assumed the solution was to hide them so productive people don't have to look at them. I assumed it was to support people well enough that we don't have this problem.

You never know when you'll be the next one to have bad luck.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#327

Post by mvc »

hogehoge51 wrote: post #317
Telaneo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have enough excess in society that we can spare enough of those things to those who are unable to take care of themselves.

You are failing to analyze the system corectly. "Have enough" is a static steady state. "Produce enough" now and in the future is a dynamic constraint. The mechanism is economic surplus, to have the producers (productive people who produce needed goods and inputs to such) create more than they need. This generally requires increasing and maintaining productivity to have surplus. Once you have a surplus the absolute m…

> the cost of distributing it has been increasing at a far higher rate than the rate of increasing surplus.

Is it? Or is it that an increasing proportion of total income ends up going to the people who find ways of hiding it such that it does not get distributed.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#328

Post by jbritton »

tmnvix wrote: post #288
WarmWash wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that when you get more for less, it kills the incentive to do more. This is a really glaring problem, and people go to really great lengths to either sweep it under the rug or hand wave it away.

Incentives don't disappear at some arbitrary level of taxation. I think you can have both sufficient incentives and more equitable distribution. The frankly obscene levels of wealth concentration we are witnessing suggest that there is a lot of room for refinement. I do find it interesting that a lot of people (not trying to imply that you are one) bang on about incentives while also fighting tooth and nail in favour…

Your tax dollars just go into a cesspool of fraud, corruption, waste, incompetence, distribution to cronies. Money taken and spent badly feels like theft.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#329

Post by nate_meurer »

Danox wrote: post #315
qwytw wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland was already the second richest country in Europe in 1913 despite not having a colonial empire to exploit, ample raw resources or the best geographic location.

Norway is kind of the same, but they made a decision to set up the Norwegian sovereign fund to save and invest that North Sea oil money their counterparts however on the other side of the North Sea, Great Britain decided to spend like a drunken sailors most of the money ended up mostly in the hands of the upper crust of the country. if a country is wealthy and unselfish enough, they can make provisions for society in…

Norway's fiscal discipline is certainly the exception that proves the rule. Britain's failure to steward the wealth of its half of the North Sea's bounty provides a good example of that rule.

Re: I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

#330

Post by Danox »

Telaneo wrote: post #129
pj_mukh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes to all of this, and want to double stress the Housing theory of everything [1]. Most of the "scarcity" people feel today in the North American context is driven by housing. And there simply isn't enough of it. And citing badly measured vacancy stats does a huge disservice to the effort to fix this. I agree we can do a lot better. And I have no moral qualms about giving the excess away to everyone who needs it. Bu…

Housing is clearly the biggest problem, yes, and I doubt you'll find anyone who'll disagree that it's not a big problem. But it's a big problem for political reasons. If we all woke up tomorrow and thought 'we need 10 million new homes', I'm sure it could happen. It's just not in the short-term (and long-term?) interests of the economy as it is now. Maybe we should do something about that? Or maybe, just maybe, we sh…

Housing is a problem and not surprisingly a very big problem in all the English speaking countries the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia, the scarcity of starter homes, high cost, low pay, and a epidemic of those so-called luxury apartments being built everywhere.

Most young people will be going back to the good old days, staying home and not leaving until they are married, which is what happens in most of the world today.

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