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Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

citizens-initiative.europa.eu

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Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#151

Post by leonvoss »

hunterpayne wrote: post #147
leonvoss wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is for stupid people, it will be done in a stupid way. They aren't interested in cash bought anonymous auth tokens that require you to be over 18 to the store clerk or whatever. In part this is stupidity, in part this panic is also about "pedophilia" so they want to make sure whoever is talking to their daughter who is using a parent authenticated tiktok account gets arrested promptly because he showed h…

You don't allow adults on the kids sites. So your theoretical pedo would have to provide ID to get the "kids" hardware. And the "kids" hardware can't go on the normal/adult/anonymous Internet. Done... For the EU, this has nothing to do with kids.

This would require hardware manufacturing. Seems expensive. Locking down hardware is also something I don't want the government getting into. What about poor young suzie who got hit on by a creepy 30 year old briefly after booting linux on an old laptop? Now we have to make everything secure at the firmware level for the "children" etc

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#152

Post by ecocentrik »

b0rtb0rt wrote: post #59

am i alone in wanting the internet to be killed? we’d all be better off if everyone wasn’t terminally online

Social media in it's current form is already dying to the explosion in synthetic interaction but the internet could survive and reshape itself.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#154

Post by bigfishrunning »

mothballed wrote: post #149
hunterpayne wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, it depends on the state. I've had to sign for wine before.

Did you order it under mail order delivery rules or under alcohol retailer rules? They're quite different. If the person you bought it from offered beer and alcohol as well, you were probably ordering under the retailer paradigm which requires an ID check. If you ordered it straight from a wine producer or exclusive wine seller then it was probably under the mail order framework. The point isn't that all wine purchas…

Not in all states. In my home state of Pennsylvania, it's only legal to have alcohol delivered by the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. It is not legal to order directly from producers.

The laws do indeed vary by state.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#155

Post by mothballed »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #154
mothballed wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you order it under mail order delivery rules or under alcohol retailer rules? They're quite different. If the person you bought it from offered beer and alcohol as well, you were probably ordering under the retailer paradigm which requires an ID check. If you ordered it straight from a wine producer or exclusive wine seller then it was probably under the mail order framework. The point isn't that all wine purchas…

Not in all states. In my home state of Pennsylvania, it's only legal to have alcohol delivered by the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. It is not legal to order directly from producers. The laws do indeed vary by state.

> it's only legal to have alcohol delivered by the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. It is not legal to order directly from producers.

You are full of shit. Opinion safely discarded.

https://www.pa.gov/agencies/lcb/shop-wine-spirits/direct-win...

>The laws do indeed vary by state.

I am not disputing that. I am disputing that "most US states, they require the delivery driver to recheck the ID in person" (the original comment I was replying to). "UPS or fedex has to check" is meaningless since they have no idea what it is and essentially no historical nor practical route to prosecution of a common-carrier deliveryman who has no idea what is in the package and no mens rea for wittingly transmitting alcohol to a minor. The states that require adult signature on common carrier delivery essentially have zero legally binding requirement as the deliveryman in most states can't be successfully prosecuted unless there is mens rea that they had prior knowledge the non-descript package was alcohol and the economics of common carrier delivery practically guarantee they will not check IDs when requested to. Thus the "requirement to check at delivery" for mail order wine is actually just a weakest of suggestions with a wink and a nod with no teeth.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#156

Post by forgetfreeman »

hnav wrote: post #51
forgetfreeman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But literally any excuse that comes to hand will be deployed if it helps the tech industry continue to avoid meaningful consequences. The same handful of companies that have engineered a global surveillance suite that rivals the most tyrannical sovereign governments wildest dreams (and can trivially detect the approximate age of a user) will without a shred of irony deploy legions of paid influencers a…

But it is an assault on privacy. If "protecting kids" was the goal here they'd push for regulation that forces websites to return standardized metadata that then gets interpreted by the user agent which can be configured by the parent.

sigh If data brokerages, Meta, Google, and Palantir are all staring at you how is it possible to claim privacy is even possible? Like, you have to have a thing before it's possible to assault it.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#157

Post by garaetjjte »

elric wrote: post #125

This initiative has the ID "ECI(2026)000011". If I understand this correctly, that means there have only been eleven citizen initiatives this year? Is that system working as designed, because that's a shockingly low number. Edit: the initiatives themselves also have shockingly low numbers of signatures. A few thousand. A million are required for the EC to take notice. This system seems a bit shitty. But maybe I'm mis…

I don't think that's too surprising, as even if you get 1 million of signatures the only thing you will get is "response from Commission". So they can reply with legalese for "get bent" and there goes your million signatures.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#159

Post by felooboolooomba »

atmosx wrote: post #105

There is a surprising amount of engineers who don’t understand what’s happening. So they deal with it as if it’s a funny thing… yeah if two police officers come knocking your door with hard data, you will just explain… and yeah, I mean kids, can bypass it… right? Wrong. This is not 1995. They can make very harsh laws and they can make it borderline impossible to bypass should some authority choose to do so. The dange…

They're just protecting the kids, at least to start with.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#160

Post by sodapopcan »

Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #114
b0rtb0rt wrote: post #59

am i alone in wanting the internet to be killed? we’d all be better off if everyone wasn’t terminally online

The Internet is fine and the bad parts will heal or remove themselves if we remove the actual bad thing: smart phones. The Internet is not supposed to follow you around hence the term "In Real Life" or "meatspace". If you want to be "terminally online" you need to sit your ass down in front of a computer for hours.

> if we remove the actual bad thing: smart phones.

That's a tall order, although there are plenty of reports of younger people switching to "dumb phones." I've switched to one myself. But how could you possibly stop it? They are terrible -- now that I don't have one anymore it's insane how many people are constantly staring at their phones, walking on the sidewalk, crossing the street, etc. It's really depressing.

But ya, at this point I don't care if parts of the internet are fine and if I had the power to burn it all down, I would.

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