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The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

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Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#141
post #63

I'm not sure I understand all the hate in this thread. I had a friend who bought a new Mac every year, selling his old Mac. His calculation was that it was about the same price as keeping one Mac and upgrading every 5 years. I'd consider leasing a Mac through this program. I priced one out, with the options I chose it's $8149, lease for $177 (6372 for 3yrs, 8496 for 4yrs). Yes, at the end of those 3 years I don't hav…

I don't see the point for consumers. Perhaps a minority will buy a new model every year but many people keep their devices for years to come. Companies that require frequent hardware refreshes would benefit from this, though Apple already had has programs for those.

> I don't see the point for consumers.

Isn't it this:

>> His calculation was that it was about the same price as keeping one Mac and upgrading every 5 years.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#142
post #14

The iPhone Upgrade Program was a 24-month 0% financing program for iPhones. The replacement Apple Upgrade https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade > is a leasing program that also covers iPads, Macs, and Apple Watches. Instead of automatically owning the device after making all payments, you can choose return/upgrade/buy it at the end of the lease. The new program is backed by Klarna instead of Citizens Bank, uses a…

So essentially 2 years worth of payments, with a reasonable monthly payment, will not be enough to buy an apple device.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#143
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is a 3 year upgrade cycle for a MacBook Pro unreasonable? For a personal machine? Yes that’s something I see as unreasonable, MacBook Pros have a very long lifespan. M1 laptop are still pretty awesome machines. For a business an upgrade every 3 years could make sense

I mean we are talking about the "Pro" machine. I think there is likely an argument to be made that if you are not doing a task that would genuinely improve with more powerful hardware do you actually need the Pro machine and you could instead go with a MacBook Air that you keep for far longer since your doing basic tasks. I do think there is still some ideas of the pro vs the Air that we are still stuck with from the…

> do you actually need the Pro machine and you could instead go with a MacBook Air that you keep for far longer since your doing basic tasks

This is probably the case for a lot of people, but Apple is smart with their lineup and there are several what I'd call "not pro" features that are gated by the MBP (and iPad pro) which is unfortunate.

Primarily, 120hz screen, SD card reader, HDMI port. None of those are really "pro" featuers, they're just basics I'd expect on any premium laptop.

That being said, 3 years is a tad on the aggressive side for an upgrade cycle for a laptop. I just upgraded my M1 last year, and this M4 Pro will easily last a year or two longer before I feel a compelling need to upgrade, outside of getting RAM constrained. Use case is photo+video production. So for me, a 5 year cycle would be about right.

But also depends on how you spec it out. If you are just buying the base model, then 3 years makes sense. If you spend extra to max it out, you'll be able to hold onto it for 6+ years.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#144
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who won't have that $433 has no business even thinking about a 1200$ phone in the first place

you overestimate the financial health of most Americans. most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population.

>when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population.

That's not really applicable because:

1. the study is for an "unexpected" expense. This you can see from 2 years away

2. The wording in the study was something along the lines of "would have to dip into savings", not that they literally don't have any money for it. The fed's survey of consumer finances shows the median household has between 7-13k (depending whether you're counting median income or median wealth) in their checking accounts

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#145
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

its not that they wont have $433, it is that people will be unwilling to shell out $433 for two year old device, if they have an option to renew it for a shiny new model and roll forward into another BNPL loan

I checked the price for a used iPhone 15 pro (ie. 2 year old iPhone) on ebay and it's around $400-$500. Therefore the implied depreciation of the lease is pretty fair, unlike the lowball offers you typically get for trading in a phone.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like there’s a psychological component here for you to feel obliged to upgrade at the end of the 2 or 3 year term. Who wants to pay $1k for a 3 year old MacBook? Trading in/up will feel natural. It does feel less and less like you own the hardware though.

This is exactly what’s going on here. You literally don’t own the hardware, it’s a lease. That said, you can purchase with financing with an Apple Card, or with numerous other financing options like carrier financing. However, leasing allows the purchase prices of phones to continue climbing while still presenting a palatable monthly payment. I think what’s going to happen with this is a lot of people will be lured i…

>Paying a $400 payment on a 2 year iPhone will look insane as that’s the depreciated value of a 2 year old phone.

Check ebay. That's around the price of a pro series iPhone 2 years old.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#147
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front. That’s the entire point. They would have bought a cheaper phone, or held on to their old one, but are now paying perpetual monthly payments. There’s a reason car dealerships never ask “how much can you afford”, but “how much do you want to pay every month”. There’s a reason Klarna is r…

You know those financially irresponsible people don’t need this program, right? They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms You seem tilted at Apple for offering a financing option, but your real gripe is apparently with some people who have poor financial decision making skills. Those people could (and probably would) do a lot worse with traditional options like a credit card. Can we at least…

> They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms

average credit card interest rate: 18-25% APR [0][1] average klarna effective interest rate:25-33% APR [2]

getting what are effectively individual lines of credit per-burrito or iphone is crazy work and I wouldn't recommend it most of the time. Save some money up, people!

[0] https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/research/current... [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/credit-cards/average-credit-c... [2] https://wealthvieu.com/debt/credit-card-debt/klarna-review/

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#149
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still just buy it. This is another payment option.

For now

What makes you think Apple would not accept 100% payment today if someone wants to buy the device outright?

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#150
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not that they wont have $433, it is that people will be unwilling to shell out $433 for two year old device, if they have an option to renew it for a shiny new model and roll forward into another BNPL loan

I checked the price for a used iPhone 15 pro (ie. 2 year old iPhone) on ebay and it's around $400-$500. Therefore the implied depreciation of the lease is pretty fair, unlike the lowball offers you typically get for trading in a phone.

I just bought a 1 year old iPhone 16 on Facebook marketplace for $400. You can find pretty good prices if you don't need the latest device.
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