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The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

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Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#111
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A refurbished iPhone 15 Pro is selling for $929 on their website right now. Trade in price for that exact model is $410. So yes they are very interested in that old phone.

I take it you’ve never purchased an Apple refurbished product? They’re in excellent condition. They do not look like 2-year used and abused trade ins. If trade-ins are going back to the refurb inventory (which I don’t know if they do) then it’s only after extensive actual refurbishment and new parts. They’re not putting it back into a box, listing it for sale, and pocketing the difference.

It's still obviously making them money. How much, who's to say, likely highly variable depending on the condition of the phone. But if it didn't make them money they wouldn't do it, they're not a charity.

I'd imagine even a phone they can't fix to sell still has some value, even as scrap to them especially as the costs of every damn material that goes into any electronic device continue to soar.

And that all being said: two things can be simultaneously true at once. Leasing is a perfectly valid form of... well you can't really say ownership, acquiring goods I guess? And it also does mean Apple can now turn what may have been one-shot purchases into people who are just fine paying a monthly payment ad infinitum. And that, in turn, opens the door for keeping people on a perpetual new-phone treadmill of monthly payments that involve them never actually owning anything.

You can very easily tie this into the Samuel Vimes Boots Theory of Economics:

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#112
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright If someone can’t plan ahead 2 years for a $433 expense, they definitely should not have a top of the line iPhone. When my income was low I had an iPhone SE that cost $329.

Well there’s a reason Americans have $1.25 trillion in credit card debt.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#113
post #23

The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade. If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade . > If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fe…

It’s a forcing function for an upgrade. You pay 75% of the cost of the device for each 2 year cycle and many people will keep doing that in perpetuity. Compared to someone that keeps their phone for 6-7 years, the leasee will pay 3x as much over that 6 year period. Apple will also get the phone back and resell the refurbished one for 50% of its original price.

Apple will benefit in two ways. They will make 125% of what they used to make on every phone they sold because they can sell it twice and more people will be forced into the two year upgrade cycle (because they can’t afford the buyout at the end) increasing their overall sales numbers in general. If you’re a consumer, you should just treat this as a 24 month interest free loan and then buy the phone outright at the end of that period. If you put the outright cost of the phone into a bond (say 7.5%) during that period, you will even get 3 months payment free and only pay for 21 out of those 24 months.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#114
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front. That’s the entire point. They would have bought a cheaper phone, or held on to their old one, but are now paying perpetual monthly payments. There’s a reason car dealerships never ask “how much can you afford”, but “how much do you want to pay every month”. There’s a reason Klarna is r…

You know those financially irresponsible people don’t need this program, right? They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms You seem tilted at Apple for offering a financing option, but your real gripe is apparently with some people who have poor financial decision making skills. Those people could (and probably would) do a lot worse with traditional options like a credit card. Can we at least…

From that lens this is a better option for the "buyer" (renter). Cause revolving credit is >10%, sometimes even more than 15%!

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#115

People whine about everything. This is a free loan compared to Apple MSRP.

First-party MSRP at that. What's a few % free loan discount in comparison to almost any other retail pricing out there that is periodically 10-15% off.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#116
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright If someone can’t plan ahead 2 years for a $433 expense, they definitely should not have a top of the line iPhone. When my income was low I had an iPhone SE that cost $329.

If everyone was as rational as you, Americans wouldn't be living in debt that most cannot afford. Most Indians have a healthy fear of debt, and that is why the iPhone doesn't have a larger share of the mobile phone market here as it really is unaffordable to most Indians (as it is for many in America). Americans however have accepted debt as a normal part of their lifestyle. When a rich man says poor people shouldn't be ordering food through Door Dash, it sounds very cynical but there is a basis of truth in it that some poor people really do not know how to manage their finances.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#117
post #22

So they're going to subtract the residual from the price and divide that by some term, just like leasing a car. Doesn't seem like a bad way to get a phone and in the end, they just automatically own the residual instead of buying it from you. It seems like a more predicable way to do the same thing most people are already doing.

I think "most people" have been shifting towards longer than 24-month replacement cycles. Leasing with a fixed end is probably predicted in their financial models to do a better job of getting more people onto a strict 24 month cycle. Nobody will want to actually buy out their lease on a 2-year-old phone, so they'll turn it in and lease another one, so Apple can throw it into the shredder[1] and show an additional sa…

They won't throw it into the shredder. They'll capture the residual by wholesaling it second-hand, same as with trade-in's.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected! This doesn't look too bad then.

I mean, it is $36 more a year but I guess that's not terrible. What will be interesting is the tax paid up front. IIRC, I paid tax on the entire device every time I renewed rather than just paying it during each month. So I always thought it wasn't the best deal because I paid tax on a device that I only ended up paying off half of before renewing and starting the process again. I could be wrong, though. I'm not the…

I don't think iPhone Upgrade Program was ever the best deal to be honest. It's just convenient.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#120
post #77
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still have a 12mo lease term if you want to upgrade yearly.

Wait, do people actually upgrade yearly? I always thought it was hyperbolic

It's not common (I think average upgrade cycle on iPhone is a little more than 3 1/2 years now, and getting longer every cycle) but it's not unheard of. The iPhone hold value well enough that you can often trade it in at something like a $200 discount and just get the new one.

Considering the cost of a battery replacement, it's not the worst value proposition in the world.

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