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Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

citizens-initiative.europa.eu

81–90 of 313 posts

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#81
We can talk, talk, and governments will still move forward. Or we can build an alternative that shows it's possible to get age verification while maintaining privacy.

There is a real way out of it -- the governments can have their cake and eat it too. I published several academic papers to prove it, and I'm open to building and deploying it. Would anyone want to work on this together:

https://magarshak.com/papers.html

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#82

The Internet is already dead. I'm reasonably confident that in the relatively near future, the Internet will be so overrun with bots and other worthless "content" that people will flock to platforms that confirm IRL identity.

You don’t need IRL identity, you just need persistent reputation. That reputation can be attached to a pseudonymous identity or an IRL one. But the design of most modern social media is to detach the “content” from the context of the author. The feeds you subscribe to are funnels that channel atomized bits of content to you. Some of it may be authored by them, but it’s the platform that intermediates your relationshi…

I think you make a good point and it is well taken. You could be right.

But I still believe that people will care about connecting with an actual person in meatspace. I just can't picture any other result except for complete and total burnout with the fakeness of the web.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#83
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a parenting issue. Don't let kids have an internet-connected phone, the same way they can't have a bottle of wine. If they really need such device make sure that device is locked to a small list of app/contacts possible. There's no need to lock down the rest of the internet because the responsible person of such kid can't tolerate their complaints. It is a parenting issue.

There is also the influence of the church. I have seen religious parents been vocally opposed to their children seeing or even discussing anything related to sexuality. An example from the past: "The National Legion of Decency, also known as the Catholic Legion of Decency, was an American Catholic group founded in 1934 by the Archbishop of Cincinnati, John T. McNicholas, as an organization dedicated to identifying ob…

You have to appreciate the level of audacity required for a catholic organization to claim they are protecting children from harms regarding sexuality.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#85
post #39

A few things you can legally do online without ID or age verification in the US 1) buy cigars and pipe tobacco (but not cigarettes!) 2) Buy "CBD" by the pound 3) Buy ammunition, a barrel and the rest of gun parts for a glock, except a frame/receiver that can be 3d printed in a few hours to complete it. 4) Order and have delivered wine But there are people arguing to skip all that and go to straight to ID for social m…

Usually the delivery person asks for ID when delivering the wine?

They absolutely don't. They ask for your date of birth to fill it on their app and that's it.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#86

Things are far more enjoyable as a teen when it s forbidden, remember the golden age of p2p! Teens who want to see porn will be able to see porns, but they will learn somethings along the way to do so This is caricatural of course, but it s just so dumb as law as enforcing age verification "anonymously" is just like a don quichotte battle at AI era

I often joke that every technical measure that prevents teens from watching porn is a way to make teens more tech-savvy.

Kids these days have it too easy, we need stronger protections or the next generation will make pathetic hackers.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SKG has fared pretty well, what do you mean?

They just had a pretty major setback in court.

They’re still around so I don’t see why having a legal setback is the same thing as going poorly. They are attempting their mission again with new bills in US and EU.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#88

The Internet is already dead. I'm reasonably confident that in the relatively near future, the Internet will be so overrun with bots and other worthless "content" that people will flock to platforms that confirm IRL identity.

You don’t need IRL identity, you just need persistent reputation. That reputation can be attached to a pseudonymous identity or an IRL one. But the design of most modern social media is to detach the “content” from the context of the author. The feeds you subscribe to are funnels that channel atomized bits of content to you. Some of it may be authored by them, but it’s the platform that intermediates your relationshi…

We've moved "identity" to a few large monopolists. Who lack all incentive to properly "enforce" it. And whose interest are perpendicular to people owning their identities (being able to take them elsewhere).

"Persistent" reputation won't change that. Because on the internet nothing is persistent, without a central party enforcing it to be so. And as said above, the ones in charge of it now, don't want to enforce it really. You don't own your domain, you don't own your IP, you don't own your feeds, "content" etc. The infrastructure that routes people to your correct "reputation", isn't yours, it's controlled and owned by Big Tech, governments, and some smaller companies. Your feed can be taken offline or away from you in a whim. Access to your blog isn't yours. Not even if you host it on a rasberry-pi in your cupboard.

Aside from maybe some blockchain shenanigans, that is. Bitcoin and maybe Ethereum are the only decentralized "pseudonymous" identity providers that could step into this, but both are ridiculously costly and complex. And wholly unsuited to route content. Systems designed for this, like Tor, aren't really up to the task either. Just look at how insanely hard it is for "Content" that governments oppose, to remain online (e.g. on the tor network). Possible, but so complex, so fragile, that it's not a practical system to use en masse. Yet it's the only working system that comes closest to really owning content in the broad sense.

So it makes perfect sense to turn to the systems that have done this "persistent reputation", aka "identity" for centuries now: Governments. Compared to Big Tech, they're more decentralized - there are far more governments worldwide "doing identities" than there are FAANG corporations. Hell, even within the US or within my country alone, there are more. Compared with all other systems, we can control them, push them into a direction we want them to go - democracy. Far from perfect. Bad even. But the least worst way to have some "persistent identity" we can get. Unfortunately.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#89
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SKG has fared pretty well, what do you mean?

They just had a pretty major setback in court.

They... didn't? They got a petition response from the EU that was more positive than they had expected, and a response from the commission is not court: the response phrasing literally leaves the door open.

Heck, the parallel movement in the US even had a major legislative victory in California, so... what are we talking about?

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#90
The internet's (at least as we knew it) days were numbered as soon as the dot com bubble happened. It changed from a thing to share info to a thing to make money. It's irrecoverably corrupted and this blatant overreach for everyone's PII is just a symptom.
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