Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

citizens-initiative.europa.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 313 posts

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#71

Post by leonvoss »

naravara wrote: post #56
AllegedAlec wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We cannot possibly expect all parents to take proper care of their kids. This has never been the case and never will. That's why we have schools and other institutions that oversee our growth within society. From both someone involved in raising kids as well as someone who knows a lot of teachers: none of the involved parties want that. Schools are at best for teaching, but never for raising.

I feel like you must have a very restrictive definition of what constitutes “raising” kids if we’re omitting the place where they spend the majority of their waking hours and the people most of their social universe is based in. We’ve had a live experiment with this during COVID and it’s pretty clear that kids raised solely at home by their parents fared way worse. Not just on academic metrics, but basic conflict res…

Raising almost all children in these government socialist barracks is so dystopian. What you call "worse" conflict resolution and social skills I call superior confidence and autonomy. People today are oversocialized.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#73

Post by leonvoss »

TryingToBeNice wrote: post #18
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also fascists screaming at the government to do other wildly illegal stuff. The lousy parents begging the government to "tread on me" would get wildly better results by spending less time trying to create an authoritarian state and more time with their kids they claim to care so much about. They're children. They have the internet access you give them . This isn't some unsolveable problem that needs governm…

[flagged]

>Ah, OK, so you admit a problem exists. That's step one...

Okay but for your position to be tenable you have to then go to step 2, which is some parents are incompetent at doing this, and step 3, which is that, nevertheless, their children, who are randomized copies of them genetically, still somehow need and benefit from the filters that their parents can't or won't apply. Then you get to step 4, which is that all of the competent people must suffer so those children can get it from a heavy handed government solution. I don't see how you jointly accept all these steps; it means you want to have a tyranny of the incompetent over the competent. You must jointly assert that they are dumb while placing them up and over the not dumb. That's full on crab-bucket, dysgenics by force ideology.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#74

Post by Schmerika »

Bender wrote: post #53
Muromec wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing that influences change reliably is a good old (threat of) violence.

I would rather not incite violence on this platform. That just gets a bunch of people put in a cage limiting their career options and potentially "justifies" even greater dystopian actions.

[dead]

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#75

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Bender wrote: post #21

As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money. What methods could be implemented to take money away from governments that implement with such things? All of my ideas would be very low traction but there are clever people here on HN that I am sure could come up with a few better ideas. One of my (probably dumb) ideas is: - Create a legal presence in a country that does not require being dystopian, re…

> What methods could be implemented to take money away from governments that implement with such things?

Right now the most important thing to inhibiting a dystopia is to break the lock Apple and Google have on approval of mobile code, because it gets used as a fulcrum by authoritarians. Want to ban VPNs? Make the app stores do it. Censor social media? Have them ban every social media app that doesn't censor. Want to track everyone everywhere? Make the phone provide sites and apps with a persistent cross-service tracking ID.

Whereas if ordinary people had devices that worked like PCs traditionally have, banning a VPN from the Microsoft store doesn't prevent you from installing one directly from the developer etc.

And getting this to be possible could be done by any sufficiently large market. If a sufficiently large market e.g. bans attestation and enforces antitrust, it allows an open platform to develop in that country by starting with compatibility with the apps of existing platforms, and then that platform can expand into other markets. Or you can get an iPhone there that you can install a VPN on and Apple can't prevent it, and then those iPhones can be exported into authoritarian countries.

And if you want a financial incentive for this, how about every country outside the US not wanting their local businesses paying the 30% tax to a foreign monopolist?

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#79

Post by paseante »

perching_aix wrote: post #4

I haven't considered this before with SKG, but if this progresses, it means the EU parliament may choose to take action based on an initiative that potentially only a vocal minority supports [0], while coming across as if they were simply following the will of the people. Not sure how I feel about that, sounds kind of problematic in retrospect. Especially since there's no mechanism for triggering EU-wide referendums…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN