Live data from Hacker News

The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

apple.com

51–60 of 411 posts

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#51
post #16

Seems like a good place to also mourn the canonical best iPhone financing method - the blissfully simple Apple Card payment plan. They got rid of it[1] (except if you're engaging in the postpaid carrier contract foolishness) in 2023, which coincidentally was the last time I felt the need to get a new iPhone. I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision…

> I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why.

Two reasons: data caps and device cost.

People want iPhones but they cost $1000 outright which isn't a small amount of cash these days so they roll the cost of the device into their monthly bill. The average consumer also doesn't understand how mobile data versus 802.11 works - their kid doesn't activate Wi-Fi on their phone or download anything, they see a large number with "GB" on the end, and they pay whatever is necessary to keep the Instagram scrolling and Disney+ flowing.

Buying an iPhone outright, flipping the old one every few years (they hold their value well) and using a $30 a month 10GB plan is doable if you have money and are savvy enough to download podcasts and use your home's AP for data.

Carriers certainly aren't incentivized to educate consumers better since they'd rather make money on device installments and milk them for hundreds of dollars a month because they "have a large family and need a lot of data". Home broadband marketing is even worse - why a family of four "needs" 500 Mbps down is absolutely beyond me. In an ideal society this type of consumer literacy would be taught in school but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#52
post #14

The iPhone Upgrade Program was a 24-month 0% financing program for iPhones. The replacement Apple Upgrade https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade > is a leasing program that also covers iPads, Macs, and Apple Watches. Instead of automatically owning the device after making all payments, you can choose return/upgrade/buy it at the end of the lease. The new program is backed by Klarna instead of Citizens Bank, uses a…

> and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default.

On the one hand that gives users an option.

On the other hand, that is a way to hide a price increase. Also, those doing this are almost obliged to take AppleCare, as (https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade):

“What do I do if my device gets lost or is stolen?

If you have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss for your iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch, you can file a claim at mysupport.apple.com/theftandloss.

If you don't have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss coverage and your device is stolen or lost, you'll need to close out your lease by paying the early termination fee or choose to pay the purchase option fee (plus any applicable taxes and fees). You can do that at an Apple Store, or through the Klarna app. You can then start a new lease with Apple Upgrade, finance with Apple, or buy your next device with a one-time payment.

You will continue to be charged your monthly lease payments until you either pay the early termination fee or purchase option fee. If you take no action, Klarna will continue to charge you your monthly lease payment through the extension period, and you will be charged the purchase option fee through Klarna.”

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#53
post #16

Seems like a good place to also mourn the canonical best iPhone financing method - the blissfully simple Apple Card payment plan. They got rid of it[1] (except if you're engaging in the postpaid carrier contract foolishness) in 2023, which coincidentally was the last time I felt the need to get a new iPhone. I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision…

I'm on Verizon postpaid, 4 lines on Unlimited Plus for $31/line. That's hard to beat pre-paid for comparable service. Yes, I have to threaten to leave Verizon once a year to get them to add a bunch of customer loyalty discounts, but that's not less work than switching pre-paid carriers to chase deals.

I subscribe to /r/NoContract/ so I have a pretty good idea what's out there.

Visible+ is a comparable pre-paid plan, it's $29/mo but that's a teaser rate and to keep it past one year, you'd have to port out and port back in for whatever deal they have in one year. The normal price is $35/mo, so I'm beating that. (Visible would also mean managing 4 separate accounts since they have no multi-line plans.)

Total Wireless is a bit cheaper ($26/mo) but I keep reading terrifying customer service issues with them including most recently losing number during the porting process.

Aside, I briefly used US Mobile earlier this year to port a VoIP line to Google Voice (GV will only port-in mobile numbers). US Mobile's customer service is exceptional. Would recommend them heartily for pre-paid service. But they don't currently beat what I'm getting from Verizon post-paid. I'd consider them if I can't keep my loyalty discounts next year.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#54
post #23

The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade. If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade . > If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fe…

It feels like there’s a psychological component here for you to feel obliged to upgrade at the end of the 2 or 3 year term. Who wants to pay $1k for a 3 year old MacBook? Trading in/up will feel natural. It does feel less and less like you own the hardware though.

That I could see, I guess the question comes down to how often to people upgrade. That comes down to discipline.

Is a 3 year upgrade cycle for a MacBook Pro unreasonable? Would you get a lower spec machine since you were not trying to maximize the life of the machine? I know I always tend to overspec my machine to keep it for as long as possible.

My M3 MBP with 36GB of ram (looks like it was about 2500 3 years ago) would get me $945 in trade in credit. May be able to get more on eBay but I can't argue with just doing trade in is easier. A bit less than I would "save" by just upgrading at the end of the lease and this already is not the base model so the number does shift.

Especially when I look at the payment options right now I could finance that MBP about $250 on my Apple Card for 12 months no interest, or $57.99 for 36 months. and then I get a new one.

Would probably depend on what it is I was doing with the machine, am I doing tasks that would actually benefit from better and better machines like video editing and similar tasks or am I just using my computer fairly basic in a way that even an M1 machine still handles just fine.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#55
post #16

Seems like a good place to also mourn the canonical best iPhone financing method - the blissfully simple Apple Card payment plan. They got rid of it[1] (except if you're engaging in the postpaid carrier contract foolishness) in 2023, which coincidentally was the last time I felt the need to get a new iPhone. I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision…

Do family plans require them to be postpaid?

The 0% financing fine print is as follows:

> Financing available to qualified customers, subject to credit approval and credit limit, and requires you to select Citizens One Apple iPhone Payments or Apple Card Monthly Installments (ACMI) as your payment type at checkout at Apple. In order to buy an iPhone with ACMI, you must select one of the following carriers (but you cannot use a prepaid carrier plan): AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon. An iPhone purchased with ACMI is always unlocked, so you can switch carriers at any time, subject to your carrier’s terms.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#56
post #41

This kind of business model is just another manifestation of "you'll own nothing and be happy." Unless you are happy with Apple or Google literally owning your phone and everything in it, the solution is to buy a Pixel, with cash, unlock the bootloader, and flash GrapheneOS.

Except in this case, you can still choose to own it at the end of the lease. The total lease price (if you buy it at the end) is the exact same as the retail price, there's no interest and no extra fees.

The issue is deeper than than. Even if you buy, not lease, the iPhone, you don't control the software. Apple is still the effective owner, and tells you what you can and can't run on your own device. Worse, Apple is able to remotely inject user-hostile programs, such as the planned CSAM scanner that was planned but ultimately abandoned[0].

[0] https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/01/csam-scanning-flaw/

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#57
post #4

They're switching to a lease model. Almost certainly because of the cost of components, but also in their interests to continue the "you'll own nothing" trend. They're even using Klarna as the leasing provider.

I don't know about you, but I like to own things that appreciate. Why would I care about leasing something that just loses value as time passes? This is not a bad way to get your phone, IMO.

Historically, owning them meant when one person upgrades, other family members could get their old ones. I use my old iPhone as a dev phone for iOS coding. I can also just enjoy having a working device that I'm not still paying for once it's paid off.

The iUP was better about giving the choice to just buy it out at the end. This one is more rigid:

>Terminating your Apple Upgrade Lease: Closing your lease and returning your device terminates your lease. You may incur substantial fees if you terminate your lease before the end of your initial lease term. You may have the option to upgrade to a new device by entering into a new lease agreement and returning your prior device. If you upgrade, your new monthly payments may be greater than your prior monthly payments. If you do not upgrade, terminate your lease, or purchase your device by the end of the initial lease term, the lease will convert to a month-to-month lease for up to six months. Your monthly payments may increase during the month-to-month periods. If you take no action at the end of your extension period, you will be charged the purchase fee under your lease. You will not own your device at the end of your lease, unless you pay the purchase fee. Insurance is not included in your lease, and you may incur damage fees if the device is lost, stolen, or not returned in the condition required by the lease.

Partnering with Klarna explains it quite a bit. They make money on penalties. This new plan has all sorts of sticks it will beat you with if you stray off the path, so it's perfect for them.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#59
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is truly the most dystopian timeline. Why? Leasing has always been an option that some people and businesses prefer, depending on the circumstances. It’s commonly done with cars. In business situations leasing can be very common because it works well with your cash flow and doesn’t require taking more debt on your books. You can buy out the item at the end of the lease term. Some people like this optionality b…

The fact that we need to use the financing models of cars for basic consumer electronics is the dystopian part.

You don’t need to do it. It’s an option.

Also calling the latest iPhone “basic consumer electronics” is out of touch. The budget options are older generation iPhones or other phones, not one of the most expensive brands on the market.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#60
post #23

The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade. If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade . > If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fe…

It feels like there’s a psychological component here for you to feel obliged to upgrade at the end of the 2 or 3 year term. Who wants to pay $1k for a 3 year old MacBook? Trading in/up will feel natural. It does feel less and less like you own the hardware though.

Is that terrible though? You're saving $1000 on a 2/3 year cadence. I'm not a fan of the one size must fit all mentality, and that the one size is the conception that we must all run every piece of he into the ground before replacing it.
Post reply on HN