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Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

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Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#61

Post by Tade0 »

ktm5j wrote: post #41
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[flagged]

Friendly reminder that at the 6th week, when the heartbeat is detectable, the body is still undecided whether it will keep the fetus. It's not an indicator of anything - just something we're emotionally attached to as humans.

20-25% otherwise healthy pregnancies end spontaneously before the 12th week and it's a mechanism used in non-surgical abortion.

At the 8th week my SO's gynecologist made an offhand remark not to get attached just yet, because we were still within the window where that happens.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#62

Post by mbmbn »

khalic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

So, providing information on how to carry out abortion after the 1st trimester in a country where abortion in the first 90 days is legal and free is not the disturbing part to you… it’s trying to prevent abortions after those 90 days.

I believe there’s something very wrong with your moral compass, pal.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#63

Post by throw-qqqqq »

ktm5j wrote: post #41
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[flagged]

I don’t think any woman who seeks an abortion, is unaware that it will kill the foetus. Having to listen to the heartbeat seems performative IMO.

The heartbeat develops in weeks 5-6 and can be heard from around week 10. You can have a legal abortion in Italy until 90 days/~13 weeks.

AFAIK it’s 14 weeks in France and Spain, 18 weeks in Denmark and Sweden, 22 in NL etc. just for some context.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#64

Post by ordu »

eur0pa wrote: post #8

Abortion is legal in this country, and any woman can go to the hospital (as in the ER), or at a consultorio familiare to initiate the process. Both options are free of charge and free of judgement, especially the latter. As to why these two websites were rendered inaccessible it beats me, as there are many other local alternatives one may peruse, and they're all accessible. Hell, even the Italian Government Website h…

> Both options are free of charge and free of judgement, especially the latter.

Maybe they are free of charge, idk, but they doesn't seem to be free of judgement. From the article:

Even if an abortion seeker is within the 12 week gestational limit and has access to a local hospital, a doctor can turn them away on the basis of conscientious objection, which legally allows any doctor to deny a patient an abortion on moral grounds. In 2019, it was reported that 67% of Italian gynecologists were registered as conscientious objectors and multiple hospitals reported having a 100% conscientious objection rate.

Even finding a doctor seem to be an issue, because most of them would tell you that they are more moral than you think and wouldn't do an abortion.

If a care seeker can find a doctor who is willing to perform an abortion, they must endure a 7-day waiting period between their initial request for an abortion and the procedure (which can push care seekers past the 12 week gestational limit).

So they believe that women are probably mistaken and don't know what they want, don't they? Or maybe they just want to make it harder to fit abortion in the 12 week limit?

In April 2024, the Italian parliament passed a measure allowing anti-abortion activists to enter abortion consultation clinics.

These activists I'm sure wouldn't judge. No way. Would they?

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#65

Post by mbmbn »

realo wrote: post #57
Argonaut998 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you believe this fetus to be a human life then it follows believing that if it is terminated, it is akin to murder/infanticide. I don't know why people are being so (deliberatively?) reductive ITT.

Yes but... you used the word "belief". Nothing scientific there. If the mother was raped and knows for sure she will not bring up her rapist's kid ... or if there is a possibility that letting the baby be born will kill the mother, MY belief is to follow the mother's wishes. It's her body and her life.

And in Italy, she has 90 days to do it legally and for free.

And please stop that rape red herring. The overwhelming majority of abortions are carried out as contraceptive methods.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#66

Post by true_religion »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #59
ktm5j wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> but I also think that it's a good idea to know what you're doing Why do so many people say this about women and their bodies? You seriously think the vast majority of women considering an abortion haven’t given it much thought? Should they all have to face more obstructions and guilt trips and patronizing lectures because a handful maybe don’t? It’s ridiculous. As for the “heartbeat” standard, I’m not getting in to…

They are just applying the same logic behind all prescription medication to abortion pills.

To this day, despite having taken them for the past 30 years, I still require a new prescription for Adderall because society deemed the addiction risk too high to avoid inserting a doctor into the equation every 30 days.

Abortifacients can cause the death of the person taking them. That’s something no one wants.

Can some people manage the risks of prescription medication on their own? Yes, but like with Adderall, society tends to lean towards caution and considers a doctor’s visit to be morally neutral as doctors aren’t expected to moralize and guilt but perform a medical service.

Personally, I think a doctor who guilts someone over medication should have their license revoked. There’s a time and place for such feelings but medical interventions are life and death.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#67

Post by watwut »

lelanthran wrote: post #49
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[dead]

The whole point is to imply you are killing a baby. Like literally. The only reason for that law is that.

There is no medical reason. It does not address rational part of decisiom making either. It is an attempt at forced emotional guilting by medical professional. And to drag you through it.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#68

Post by qsort »

lelanthran wrote: post #49
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[dead]

"Torture" is definitely hyperbolic, but being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus is not something that's based on any kind of science or rational argument, it's quite transparently emotional manipulation.

I agree with you that it's a delicate issue, I really do. I'm also tired of taking infinite psychic damage trying to steel-man the arguments of people who are clearly not interested in operating at the level of steel.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#69

Post by lokar »

eur0pa wrote: post #20
lelanthran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As to why these two websites were rendered inaccessible it beats me, as there are many other local alternatives one may peruse, and they're all accessible. Because, presumably, abortion is legal only in specific circumstances (first trimester, I imagine) and these websites are bypassing that. FTFA: > Today, Women on Web facilitates online access to abortion pills I'd expect any website that provides access to non-o…

Ah that does it. Abortion pills are not candies. There's a reason why they are expected to be used in a hospital setting, with medical personnel nearby. If these websites facilitate the distribution of prescription meds, they're no different from other "online pharmacies" and get the same treatment

There is ample evidence that video appointments followed by pills through the mail are safe and effective with very low rates of complications that can be addressed in a local ER if needed.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#70

Post by bwestergard »

khalic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

The worse the experience of working life gets, the more important an idealized family life becomes for many downwardly mobile or precarious people. Most people's family lives cannot actually live up to this fantasy, so scapegoats - gender non-conforming people, feminists, immigrants - are required to deal with the cognitive dissonance.
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