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Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

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Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#51

Post by OkayPhysicist »

altern8 wrote: post #19
flaviolivolsi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Both options are free of charge and free of judgement, especially the latter" You sure about that? Unfortunately there's a thing called "obiezione di coscienza" (TL;DR: doctors opposing abortion because they're catholics). Feel free to translate this article: https://www.editorialedomani.it/fatti/aborto-obiezione-cosci...

That's like 1 out of 1000 doctors, just go to another doctor. And even if that wasn't the case, what is the government supposed to do about that?

The same thing you'd do with a doctor with a penchant for harming their patients. Strip their license.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#52

Post by realo »

altern8 wrote: post #21
gpderetta wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed legal, but gynaecologists can object to help for conscientious reasons (65% do) and in quite a few hospitals, 100% do object, especially in the south. So in practice access to it is not always that easy.

That's because they don't want to get sued. So, you think the government should force doctors to perform abortions, like putting them in jail if they don't want to do it?

Jail? No.

Big fine? Of course.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#53

Post by setopt »

eur0pa wrote: post #20
lelanthran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As to why these two websites were rendered inaccessible it beats me, as there are many other local alternatives one may peruse, and they're all accessible. Because, presumably, abortion is legal only in specific circumstances (first trimester, I imagine) and these websites are bypassing that. FTFA: > Today, Women on Web facilitates online access to abortion pills I'd expect any website that provides access to non-o…

Ah that does it. Abortion pills are not candies. There's a reason why they are expected to be used in a hospital setting, with medical personnel nearby. If these websites facilitate the distribution of prescription meds, they're no different from other "online pharmacies" and get the same treatment

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The explanation sounds very reasonable.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#54

Post by munk-a »

lelanthran wrote: post #49
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[dead]

It's torture because abortion is never a trivial decision to make - by the time a person has decided to get an abortion and not become a parent we should respect their wishes. If a decision has been made there's no reason to cause pointless emotional grief before executing the operation.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#55

Post by ron_k »

eur0pa wrote: post #25
flaviolivolsi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Both options are free of charge and free of judgement, especially the latter" You sure about that? Unfortunately there's a thing called "obiezione di coscienza" (TL;DR: doctors opposing abortion because they're catholics). Feel free to translate this article: https://www.editorialedomani.it/fatti/aborto-obiezione-cosci...

Finding an obiettore is a somewhat rare circumstance in a hospital, but it's unlikely in a consultorio familiare; those are structures whose only purpose is reproductive health, gynecological care, social services, and psychological consult, especially aimed at teens and women. If you're an objector you generally don't go out of your way to work there.

I’m sure you’re aware that it _greatly_ depends on the region you’re living in. The fact that consultori are for reproductive health doesn’t mean that there are no obiettori: for some of them the purpose of those structures are exactly to prevent abortions. There are many accounts of women who were pushed to not interrupting a pregnancy.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#56

Post by quickthrowman »

Argonaut998 wrote: post #47
khalic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Because if you believe this fetus to be a human life then it follows believing that if it is terminated, it is akin to murder/infanticide. I don't know why people are being so (deliberatively?) reductive ITT.

If someone is morally opposed to abortion, they don’t need to have one. That’s where it should end, there’s no need to control the bodies of others due to a moral belief that other people don’t hold.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#57

Post by realo »

Argonaut998 wrote: post #47
khalic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Because if you believe this fetus to be a human life then it follows believing that if it is terminated, it is akin to murder/infanticide. I don't know why people are being so (deliberatively?) reductive ITT.

Yes but... you used the word "belief". Nothing scientific there.

If the mother was raped and knows for sure she will not bring up her rapist's kid ... or if there is a possibility that letting the baby be born will kill the mother, MY belief is to follow the mother's wishes.

It's her body and her life.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#58

Post by munk-a »

setopt wrote: post #53
eur0pa wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah that does it. Abortion pills are not candies. There's a reason why they are expected to be used in a hospital setting, with medical personnel nearby. If these websites facilitate the distribution of prescription meds, they're no different from other "online pharmacies" and get the same treatment

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The explanation sounds very reasonable.

It's an unreasonable argument because the people who treat medication like candy are far less common than the people who are restricted from seeking medical assistance due to repressive family situations.

In Italy these services are thankfully not restricted in the same way they are in, say, America - but there are still plenty of life situations (like suffering SA from a family member) where shame, social pressures and threats can cause the regular medical system to be hard to access.

That is a far more reasonable scenario than "I just love popping abortion pills!"

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#59

Post by Forgeties79 »

ktm5j wrote: post #41
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[flagged]

> but I also think that it's a good idea to know what you're doing

Why do so many people say this about women and their bodies? You seriously think the vast majority of women considering an abortion haven’t given it much thought? Should they all have to face more obstructions and guilt trips and patronizing lectures because a handful maybe don’t? It’s ridiculous.

As for the “heartbeat” standard, I’m not getting in to it, suffice to say that should not be a bar here for deciding a woman’s rights.

> I stand by this comment, downvote all you like folks.

I wasn’t going to until this part of your comment.

Re: Italy Blocks Reproductive Health Websites Women on Web and Women Help Women

#60

Post by onethought »

lelanthran wrote: post #49
chpatrick wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hungary abortion is technically legal but only surgically, and the public health system is mental torture including being forced to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus (thanks to our local fascist party). Women on Web is a million times more humane. It's not like anyone thinks "oh I'm pregnant I'll just pop a pill and it's solved".

[dead]

Just want to point out, it’s polarising because it’s a wedge issues that divides voting blocks neatly, and nothing to do with it being The Issue that it is.

More people die from obesity, cars, flu, preventable illness, etc. But we discuss endless this one issue… it’s for political science reasons not humanity/moral/etc reasons.

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