UBS had a similar capability on their laptops so they facilitate tax evasion for US clients: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/30/why-did-the-us-pay-this-form...
Only the people working on tax evasion had this on their laptops?
Probably all bankers.
GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
81–90 of 206 posts
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
The moment you start talking, you're no longer using your 5th amendment rights. And anything that you tell an officer that is not truthful, such as providing the wrong password, can be considered a crime in itself. Even claiming you are innocent can be considered a separate crime if you are not proven innocent later on.
You can decide to apply your 5th amendment right at any time, you just have to be explicit that you’re doing so (Salinas v. Texas). And then you have to stand strong in the face of attempts to get you to continue talking.
Oh, yes, I just meant that as long as you're saying things, your speech is not protected by the 5th amendment. Not that if you've started speaking you can no longer stop and invoke the 5th later.
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#83The border agents didn't act in good faith, regardless of what they're empowered to do. They wanted the data for one reason and fabricated another to prompt the device search. The data they were interested in pertained to protest activity protected under the constitution but the lie they told was about something criminal. That anything within 100 miles of the border is constitution free tosses that out, I guess, but…
[flagged]
What is the point you're trying to make?
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#84Couldn’t GrapheneOS provide a special pin which boots into an “empty”session? Where the user can install some default stuff to not look suspicious?
They said they don't bother because it's non-trivial to implement convincingly, so they don't bother, lest it gives people a false sense of security. For instance, if you do this, and the adb logs aren't scrubbed, then that's massively suspicious and that'd still you in legal hot waters.
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#85The border agents didn't act in good faith, regardless of what they're empowered to do. They wanted the data for one reason and fabricated another to prompt the device search. The data they were interested in pertained to protest activity protected under the constitution but the lie they told was about something criminal. That anything within 100 miles of the border is constitution free tosses that out, I guess, but…
Interesting that all that rules don't apply to water. The moment you stepped on a boat, coastal guard can (and do regularly) board it and conduct a search without any reasoning. They don't need any probable causes, warrants, nothing. Seems like so far it didn't create any problems, so public is ok with that.
The same is true at any border crossing - you have to submit to searches by CBP agents, who don't need any probable cause. I believe device searches are still a somewhat greyer area, at least if password protected (as providing a password would be compelled speech, unlike a luggage search which can be conducted without any action from your part).
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#86The founding fathers would be aghast at what America became. Hard to imagine modern America passing some of those constitutional amendments that older America passed wayyy back.
On the other hand, why care what the American founding fathers thought? There have been two centuries since then of developments in democratic countries that some Americans could choose as a model they like more. And now it's the Chinese century anyway.
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#87Couldn’t GrapheneOS provide a special pin which boots into an “empty”session? Where the user can install some default stuff to not look suspicious?
im not sure if grapheneos does or not, but it's not a novel idea, and often will only be a delay tactic.
forensics will reveal the other partition(s), and then you're in the exact same position having to answer "what's the other partition, provide the password"
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#88This probably doesn't hold up legally, but it does hold up logically: if the reason a border search exemption exists is to prevent importation of material that is unlawful to import, wiping a storage device also fulfills that purpose.
It would seem that the officer was searching for evidence of a crime, not to prevent importation.
However, did that evidence really exist? And if it did, was it for something else? Perhaps, the guy just worried about something far more mundane being discovered? We shall never know.
Think Schrodinger's password.
Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#89Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search
#90The "agent entered password themselves, therefore they're to blame" seems as good of a logic as "I'm going to start swinging my arms and start walking forward, so if you don't move, it's YOU hitting YOURSELF".
enough metaphors though. Here is what I think probably actually happened, based on the multiple accounts I've read:
"Give us the PIN for your phone"
"I don't want you to search my phone, and I want to talk to my lawyer"
"If you don't comply, you're going to be in a lot of trouble"
"Can I please just go, I don't want to answer questions or be searched"
"If you don't comply we will seize your phone and detain you indefinitely until we can unlock your phone!"
"I want my lawyer."
"Just tell us the PIN and you'll be on your way. Otherwise it's gonna be bad."
"Look if I have no choice my PIN is 1234, but I don't want you searching my phone without my lawyer present."
...
"Hey! We tried to search your phone and the phone wiped itself! You're going to prison for destruction of evidence!"