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Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

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Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#41

Post by ktosobcy »

LaurensBER wrote: post #30

> Europe’s Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU’s Budget > Taxes on wealth, crypto and financial trades could raise billions no single member state can collect alone. The sad reality is that as soon as the EU introduces this, these families won't be Europe's Ultra Rich anymore. They'll soon be the UK/Swiss/Dubai/Israel/US Ultra Rich. What the EU needs is: - Less bureaucracy - One capital market - More v…

In general more integrated EU with easier flow of capital and easier investments…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49075517

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#43

Post by xenospn »

LaurensBER wrote: post #30

> Europe’s Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU’s Budget > Taxes on wealth, crypto and financial trades could raise billions no single member state can collect alone. The sad reality is that as soon as the EU introduces this, these families won't be Europe's Ultra Rich anymore. They'll soon be the UK/Swiss/Dubai/Israel/US Ultra Rich. What the EU needs is: - Less bureaucracy - One capital market - More v…

Pretty sure Israel has even higher taxes. The people who live there don’t live there because of the tax situation, they live there because they are Jewish. You really can’t offset that with a revised tax code.

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#44

Post by ktosobcy »

geertj wrote: post #31

The last thing the EU needs is a higher budget. Unelected bureaucrats that control a trillion dollar budget and have the ability to introduce legislation that supersedes national laws, what could possibly go wrong?

Can we stop parrotic absurdly stupid "unelected bureaucrats" mantra? EU and it's bodies is not more "unelected" than in any other government body -- in the UK people don't vote for the PM, members of Lords or civil servants ("unelected burocrats managing money")… same goes for most of other countries…

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#45

Post by leugim »

mono442 wrote: post #34
leugim wrote: post #9

This is a shortcut for taxing unrealized gains. They start with NW >100 million and start decreasing the concept of Ultra-Rich until everyone non-broke eventually pays it. In Spain it happened with the Work Tax which from >60k EUR (68k USD) goes to 45% as if earning 3k EUR (3.4k USD) per month made you rich.

shouldn't it be 5k per month?

No 60k EUR is gross, which nets around 3k EUR month + 2 extras (Summer and Christmas). Or 3.4k EUR month without extras.

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#46

Post by LaurensBER »

neerd wrote: post #40
LaurensBER wrote: post #30

> Europe’s Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU’s Budget > Taxes on wealth, crypto and financial trades could raise billions no single member state can collect alone. The sad reality is that as soon as the EU introduces this, these families won't be Europe's Ultra Rich anymore. They'll soon be the UK/Swiss/Dubai/Israel/US Ultra Rich. What the EU needs is: - Less bureaucracy - One capital market - More v…

> The sad reality is that as soon as the EU introduces this, these families won't be Europe's Ultra Rich anymore. They'll soon be the UK/Swiss/Dubai/Israel/US Ultra Rich. Yeah, but the physical assets they own can’t move freely. The EU can still tax or seize assets within the EU.

> Yeah, but the physical assets they own can’t move freely. The EU can still tax or seize assets within the EU.

This is true but effectively it would lower the value of those assets (since any future investor needs to account for the increased tax burden) which would also be negative for the EU.

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#47

Post by thepryz »

mc32 wrote: post #29
leugim wrote: post #9

This is a shortcut for taxing unrealized gains. They start with NW >100 million and start decreasing the concept of Ultra-Rich until everyone non-broke eventually pays it. In Spain it happened with the Work Tax which from >60k EUR (68k USD) goes to 45% as if earning 3k EUR (3.4k USD) per month made you rich.

As long as there are reasonable countries they can move to and moving doesn’t impact their business enough, people will move to more favorable tax environments even if they have qualms about the new options politics if taxes get too high. A few years ago France imposed larger taxes and a few wealthy people left and some even took debatable citizenship options. Some people may not like this to happen but it does and w…

I think most people are quickly coming to the conclusion that maybe the wealthy aren't as critical to a community as they would like everyone to believe.

The big argument around NYC's pied-à-terre tax among other policy changes was that it would force the wealthy to relocate outside of NYC to more favorable locations. That hasn't happened, and for a place like NYC, very unlikely to happen because people are attracted to the city for what it provides. Worst case, they leave, the property values decline and the city becomes more affordable with any gaps in businesses likely filled by those living and invested in the community.

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#48

Post by LaurensBER »

xenospn wrote: post #43
LaurensBER wrote: post #30

> Europe’s Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU’s Budget > Taxes on wealth, crypto and financial trades could raise billions no single member state can collect alone. The sad reality is that as soon as the EU introduces this, these families won't be Europe's Ultra Rich anymore. They'll soon be the UK/Swiss/Dubai/Israel/US Ultra Rich. What the EU needs is: - Less bureaucracy - One capital market - More v…

Pretty sure Israel has even higher taxes. The people who live there don’t live there because of the tax situation, they live there because they are Jewish. You really can’t offset that with a revised tax code.

I'm not a tax expert but it's my understanding that Israel doesn't have an inheritance or wealth tax which is already better than a lot of European nations.

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#49

Post by leugim »

ninininino wrote: post #36
leugim wrote: post #9

This is a shortcut for taxing unrealized gains. They start with NW >100 million and start decreasing the concept of Ultra-Rich until everyone non-broke eventually pays it. In Spain it happened with the Work Tax which from >60k EUR (68k USD) goes to 45% as if earning 3k EUR (3.4k USD) per month made you rich.

> In Spain it happened with the Work Tax which from >60k EUR (68k USD) goes to 45% as if earning 3k EUR (3.4k USD) per month made you rich. Sounds worse than it is since it's progressive taxation meaning the effective tax rate for the entire 60k EUR is somewhere like ~29%, not 45. €0 to €12,450: 19% €12,451 to €20,200: 24% €20,201 to €35,200: 30% €35,201 to €60,000: 37% Source: Gemini so it could be complete bullshit…

It's progressive so the first 10k are not taxed as the last 10k. I do not deny, the problem is that 60k is the highest bracket* so >60k you are considered rich.

In Spain if you earn more than 60k you are considered rich.

* There's one of 300k at 47% but even that one does not change so much as the 60k.

Re: Europe's Ultra-Rich Could Fund a Substantial Part of the EU's Budget

#50

Post by mc32 »

thepryz wrote: post #47
mc32 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as there are reasonable countries they can move to and moving doesn’t impact their business enough, people will move to more favorable tax environments even if they have qualms about the new options politics if taxes get too high. A few years ago France imposed larger taxes and a few wealthy people left and some even took debatable citizenship options. Some people may not like this to happen but it does and w…

I think most people are quickly coming to the conclusion that maybe the wealthy aren't as critical to a community as they would like everyone to believe. The big argument around NYC's pied-à-terre tax among other policy changes was that it would force the wealthy to relocate outside of NYC to more favorable locations. That hasn't happened, and for a place like NYC, very unlikely to happen because people are attracted…

It depends it may have an analogue in the evaporative cooling effect in the tax and investment base.

If the state goes too far, those with wealth may take their wealth and invest in in friendlier investment climates where their home country suffers from wealth drain and potentially could end up as country versions of Detroit (or maybe like VZ where as the state confiscated property investment dried up).

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