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Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

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Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#121
post #39

Fascinating to see how many tech people, as soon as they get rich, turn to extreme. Name them all - they mostly all are very active on X, and each new tweet pushes the limits of what was previously deemed unacceptable. I'm rich, so my opinion must be more important, right?

Well, they did /something/ right ...

Would you say the same about someone who accumulated billions thru the illegal drug trade?

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#122
Hear me out...

Why don't we tax stocks like we do homes with a property tax? Why am I paying property tax on the majority of my net worth, but billionaires are not?

Also, I know all about the buy/borrow/die strategy and I have an idea for that too. Let's tax all loans as income. They are, in fact, income. "B-but they have to be paid back!" That's income again, the bank should pay tax on it.

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#123
post #36

Money is power. That is the problem with extreme wealth. It provides unaccountable power outside the democratic process. It is not surprising that an already powerful man wants even more power, but I do not understand why anyone else would go along with this.

It's a structural problem in our socio-technical system. You can't separate money and government, because "corruption" to some degree is the default state. Yes there are exceptions, but the opposite if the bad apple concept. You have to get lucky to find the good apples. Which means there is some structural insufficiency in the concept of money and government.

FWIW the original meaning of the bad apple idiom is that a single one spoils the whole set

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#124

> one that would strip voting rights from anyone who pays no income tax It could be an interesting thought experiment to consider the second and third order consequences, even if, from first principles this is a non-starter in a democratic society. First off all, what percent of people do not pay any taxes on income? What portion of them are poor vs. hedge fund managers or other super wealthy people who have structur…

One possibly positive side effect is that by sidelining the working and middle classes, the political landscape would pit the rich against the fuck-you-rich.

It would be interesting to see the class of doctors, lawyers and small business owners fighting against the class of large cap c-suite and the billionaires.

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#125
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a structural problem in our socio-technical system. You can't separate money and government, because "corruption" to some degree is the default state. Yes there are exceptions, but the opposite if the bad apple concept. You have to get lucky to find the good apples. Which means there is some structural insufficiency in the concept of money and government.

> It's a structural problem in our socio-technical system. it has always been like this, has it not? almost by definition the more resources you have the more power you have. this is how the universe works.

Yes that's what money is almost by definition and government has always had that relationship. But realize that money and government are technologies and we can create new versions or even new paradigms.

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#126
post #69

How much more evidence do we need that there is in fact a class war going on and the rich are winning? The biggest con they ever pulled off is making working class people (and yes, that includes you, fellow tech workers!) hate unions. Unions are the only way workers can fight back - they may be able to tell individuals what to do, but they can't control the collective. This is also why they're so feverishly trying to…

[dead]

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can also get relatively rich by marrying a monster- aka the state?

What? How do you marry a state?

I think maybe it's an awkward attempt at some comment on politicians being able to legally insider trade?

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#128

> one that would strip voting rights from anyone who pays no income tax It could be an interesting thought experiment to consider the second and third order consequences, even if, from first principles this is a non-starter in a democratic society. First off all, what percent of people do not pay any taxes on income? What portion of them are poor vs. hedge fund managers or other super wealthy people who have structur…

In the U.S., it's about 28% of the populace which pays no taxes (or ends up netting to zero or negative taxation; for example, working families with children are often in a situation where they might owe $2,000 in taxes but also get a credit of $5,000, for a net refund of $3,000.) My 28% figure includes property, sales taxes, etc. but does not include taxes that employers, landlords, and so on pay.

This is all very beneficial for big business including Shopify: businesses can pay lower wages since the government steps in with benefits, including food, cash, housing, energy, medical care, and so on, for people with lower incomes, and then that means they have more money to spend as consumers (relevant to Shopify).

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#129

> one that would strip voting rights from anyone who pays no income tax It could be an interesting thought experiment to consider the second and third order consequences, even if, from first principles this is a non-starter in a democratic society. First off all, what percent of people do not pay any taxes on income? What portion of them are poor vs. hedge fund managers or other super wealthy people who have structur…

Trump paid about $750 in taxes in 2016 while still claiming to be a billionaire. I wouldn't consider it a fair share, but would that $750 entitle him to a vote under this plan?

Re: Why a $154B CEO just endorsed stripping most Americans of voting rights

#130
post #7

I dont think its a good model for America but if I were starting a country from scratch I might consider it. But I would also do stuff like a heavy death estate tax and disallow most generational wealth transfer.

I've heard some good arguments for eliminating a wealth tax and instead treating inheritance as income. There are other forms of money manipulation that should also be treated as income. For example, the borrow-spend-die trick. Other transactions that should go through a "cash" phase include the financial three-card Monty the AI companies are pulling right now. Other manipulations we need to make illegal, such as stock buybacks.

There are some "reasonable" exceptions one could argue for, but as soon as you start making exceptions, you open yourself to abuse of the system. For example, using the tax code to enact social policy. I think it would be more honest for the government to take in all the money as taxes and then turn around and distribute money for socially beneficial programs such as green energy, schools, public health, et cetera. If you look at who screams about this, you'll probably find that most of them are opportunistic people who are afraid somebody will cheat the system better than they do.

This would also be a good opportunity to create an independent, transparent organization that audits where the money goes and provides raw data they use to justify their actions to the public so that others can double-check their conclusions.

#IfIWereKing

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