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Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

usefeyn.com

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Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#21

Post by snyy »

qingcharles wrote: post #19

How does it stack up against Adobe's model? The advantage Adobe has is there are essentially two options: (1) Select Subject (95% of the time will give you the result you want); (2) Select Person (helps in the edge cases). The issue I have is, what is the subject? For instance, you have a person sat on a couch. You hit Select Subject. Is the subject the person, or the person plus the couch? With Adobe's when I only w…

Your question touches on excellent points.

> what is the subject?

FeyNoBg is an "automatic" model. It automatically detects foreground elements and segments the image. Most of the time, this includes all foreground elements. As you can see in the freekick example (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MZkAGLwbhNVOZ0Oi7XvpCfSEu9Q...), the model output includes the ball, Messi, and the Liverpool defenders. In your example, FeyNoBg will segment around the person plus the couch.

> I only want the person [including props]

The alternative to automatic models are prompt models and those serve the exact use case you're describing. These allow you to specify the foreground element to include. Everything else is removed. That's the next step for FeyNoBg, converting it from an automatic to a prompt model. Now, answering your question:

> How does it stack up against Adobe's model?

We're better on automatic background removal. Support for selecting a subset of foreground elements is coming soon

Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#22

Post by snyy »

rahulb0802 wrote: post #18

How did you assemble your training dataset, especially since you mention some of the considerations with different training mixes in your controlled eval?

Our blog covers this: https://usefeyn.com/blog/feynobg/#strength-in-diverse-data

Recapping here: Our first train was on 4,000 images from the MaskFactory dataset alone. This improved some benchmarks but regressed on others. We took this as a sign of narrow datasets causing unintended specialization.

In our next run, we assembled 26.1K images from 10 different datasets. We capped the amount of images that could come from one source, to prevent a single type of example from dominating. This composite set covered several cases like crowded scenes, camouflage, high-res subjects, fine objects like hair, blurred backgrounds, etc. We then shuffled everything together and trained FeyNoBg.

Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#23

Post by qingcharles »

snyy wrote: post #21
qingcharles wrote: post #19

How does it stack up against Adobe's model? The advantage Adobe has is there are essentially two options: (1) Select Subject (95% of the time will give you the result you want); (2) Select Person (helps in the edge cases). The issue I have is, what is the subject? For instance, you have a person sat on a couch. You hit Select Subject. Is the subject the person, or the person plus the couch? With Adobe's when I only w…

Your question touches on excellent points. > what is the subject? FeyNoBg is an "automatic" model. It automatically detects foreground elements and segments the image. Most of the time, this includes all foreground elements. As you can see in the freekick example ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MZkAGLwbhNVOZ0Oi7XvpCfSEu9Q... ), the model output includes the ball, Messi, and the Liverpool defenders. In your example…

Thank you for the excellent reply.

Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#24

Post by woadwarrior01 »

snyy wrote: post #16
woadwarrior01 wrote: post #14

Why extend an MIT licensed model's weights (BiRefNet) and release it under a cc-by-nc-4.0 license?

This pertains to the larger open source licensing discussions that have been happening (as I'm sure you've seen too). We've released projects under the MIT license before, most notably https://github.com/feyninc/chonkie . While we're not trying to directly monetize on this work, credit goes a long way and helps in other operations. Recently, attributed usage is shrinking. To be clear, this is not a shrinkage in actua…

> cc-by-nc is a protection against that.

I don’t think so. There are CC licenses that allow for commercial usage. Most companies ban their developers from using anything with an NC or GPL style licence (with an exception for the Linux kernel).

Also, you might want to speak to an IP lawyer about the legality of re-licensing a derivative of an MIT licensed work, without attribution.

Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#25

Post by not_lain »

woadwarrior01 wrote: post #14

Why extend an MIT licensed model's weights (BiRefNet) and release it under a cc-by-nc-4.0 license?

I did reach out to Peng (the original author) before the release about license, citation, paper_url with specific emphasis on the the license part and got the green light from him to release the model under the original MIT license or the apache2.0 license since i have pushed for it. since this is a mistake from my part not iterating with the team about my comms i sincerely apologize for this and I have updated the model card to reflect this change to use the original MIT license, i will also update the library so that all models using the birefnet architecture will be released under the MIT license shortly. and thanks a lot for bringing this to my radar.

Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#26

Post by not_lain »

woadwarrior01 wrote: post #24
snyy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pertains to the larger open source licensing discussions that have been happening (as I'm sure you've seen too). We've released projects under the MIT license before, most notably https://github.com/feyninc/chonkie . While we're not trying to directly monetize on this work, credit goes a long way and helps in other operations. Recently, attributed usage is shrinking. To be clear, this is not a shrinkage in actua…

> cc-by-nc is a protection against that. I don’t think so. There are CC licenses that allow for commercial usage. Most companies ban their developers from using anything with an NC or GPL style licence (with an exception for the Linux kernel). Also, you might want to speak to an IP lawyer about the legality of re-licensing a derivative of an MIT licensed work, without attribution.

Hi, thanks a lot for bringing this to our radar, and i have updated the model card to reflect this change, and i will update the library shortly to enforce this choice of license. I have provided additional information in the same thread above, and will reach out to the original author shortly with an apology and I will see how it goes. I would also like to apologise to the community and i will do better in the future. - Hafedh Hichri (Lain)

Re: Show HN: FeyNoBg – Automatic background removal model and training library

#30

Post by woadwarrior01 »

not_lain wrote: post #26
woadwarrior01 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cc-by-nc is a protection against that. I don’t think so. There are CC licenses that allow for commercial usage. Most companies ban their developers from using anything with an NC or GPL style licence (with an exception for the Linux kernel). Also, you might want to speak to an IP lawyer about the legality of re-licensing a derivative of an MIT licensed work, without attribution.

Hi, thanks a lot for bringing this to our radar, and i have updated the model card to reflect this change, and i will update the library shortly to enforce this choice of license. I have provided additional information in the same thread above, and will reach out to the original author shortly with an apology and I will see how it goes. I would also like to apologise to the community and i will do better in the futur…

Hey, thanks for doing the right thing. There's no need for an apology.
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