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Using an open model feels surprisingly good

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Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#71

Post by techpression »

hangonhn wrote: post #61
Gigachad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why Anthropic is freaking out right now. China has undermined their whole business. AI models will be basic commodities where hosting providers earn a tiny margin over the raw costs rather than the predicted fortunes from being the gatekeepers to the technology.

Yeah I feel like China and their OSS model companies really did the world a great service by ensuring closed source US companies don't have an monopoly on LLMs and thus capture all the value of AI development and its impact on society. It's not going to be the foundational labs that will capture all the value -- I'm sure they will do just fine. A lot of it now will flow to the companies providing the inferences and s…

It’s not a service, I hope nobody thinks this is being done ”for the good of humanity” or whatever. Doesn’t mean there’s not a benefit to people, but the financial politics behind it could turn out extremely good for China, and they are very well aware of just that.

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#72

Post by ThePinion »

Gigachad wrote: post #20
wps wrote: post #19

The reason Claude code is so popular is because it’s really good at taking super vague human prose “Claude build me a million dollar SaaS”-type prompts and spitting out thousands of lines of code which cover tons of surface-level edge cases, build in tons of functionality, etc The smaller/open models are less good at that. But that’s not how software development is done. You don’t prompt a whole app and be done with…

Personally I've found Deepseek v4 Flash to be as useful to me as Opus. But I don't do these silly one shot tech demos. I have the technical understanding to ask for exactly the change I want with the right terminology. I loaded up some credit on openrouter and it took me ages to hit $1 in spend.

Do you use DeepSeek for both planning and building or do you have a preferred builder? I've been looking into moving from Cursor to OpenCode, or at least have Opencode for when my allocated usage for the month is done.

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#74

Post by dan_gee »

wps wrote: post #19

The reason Claude code is so popular is because it’s really good at taking super vague human prose “Claude build me a million dollar SaaS”-type prompts and spitting out thousands of lines of code which cover tons of surface-level edge cases, build in tons of functionality, etc The smaller/open models are less good at that. But that’s not how software development is done. You don’t prompt a whole app and be done with…

[dead]

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#75

Post by _ink_ »

ljlolel wrote: post #67

you can use claude code or codex with open models using AllRouter https://github.com/Lore-Hex/AllRouter

For claude it is enough to set a few env variables. It lets you easily map each model class (opus, sonnet, haiku) to an open model with Openrouter: https://openrouter.ai/docs/cookbook/coding-agents/claude-cod...

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#76

Post by Aquitard »

scorpioxy wrote: post #63
Aquitard wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I've found and would likely be the consenses of the HN community. This has lowered the barrier of entry for many non-SWEs. I'm primarily a data scientist myself in the environmental sector with limited front end development. My partner proposed an idea to help manage her horses and over the course of several weeks we fleshed out an android app that would enable/assist her with horse care. I spent a few d…

Question if you don't mind. Would you have considered outsourcing the application you mentioned? As in, paying someone else to do it? To me it is great that LLMs are allowing more people to use computers and software the way they were meant to. But the people that are using them this way, in my opinion, wouldn't have commissioned anybody to do it anyway. They'd just live with whatever process/pain they have. So jumpi…

To answer your question probably not unless I knew the person. I could argue the case that I would have outsourced the android UI scope if I was motivated enough to develop it and kept the backend to myself. I could then tinker with the front end and build upon it. However I wouldn't outsource now if I knew the person would just use LLM anyway. I'm the type that would rather build something myself than purchase off the shelf that does a similar job. It provides a huge learning opportunity that I don't want to miss.

I understand what you're saying. My opinion is I see agentic workflow similar to the star trek universe where they ask the computer questions and get a response while they continue with their work. But that doesn't mean not learning how to do things from first principles. This is what I tell juniors in my field when I pass jobs to them. They can use LLM but to ensure they know and understand what's going on and most do from their university degree. I think this is where we need to pivot towards when discussing LLM.

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#78

Post by safety1st »

wps wrote: post #27
Gigachad wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I've found Deepseek v4 Flash to be as useful to me as Opus. But I don't do these silly one shot tech demos. I have the technical understanding to ask for exactly the change I want with the right terminology. I loaded up some credit on openrouter and it took me ages to hit $1 in spend.

I’m the exact same way. $15 on openrouter lasted me so long it would’ve got me fired at FAANG. Despite this, my number of commits is dramatically higher. Small, beautifully scoped changes is just good software development, and good for the wallet as well. I think the issue is that no one is content with incremental progress. We all know one shots are mostly possible, so the age of the personal project is kind of over…

We intentionally use both Codex and Claude on our team so that we can compare and contrast. We are reasonably serious about delivering work that has been reviewed and tested with humans who are at a minimum steering that process, at maximum doing it the good old fashioned way. I feel like the Claude guy tends to overproduce, like it just loves to go beyond the spec, add embellishments we didn't ask for, all this generates a ton more code which may or may not be necessary, and in certain areas of the product like UX this may be fine but in sensitive business logic it's a hard no, we need to throw it out and rewrite. I see much less of this with Codex and I look forward to trying an open model when we have time. Personally my Claude subscription is languishing, I won't say it has zero uses but as a relative Claude latecomer I just feel like the style it produces is just not what I'm looking for.

Claude feels more like gambling, that's what it is. Built for the vibe coder.

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#79

Post by armchairhacker »

mbanerjeepalmer wrote: post #69

This is an ad. I know the author has a long history here and I'm sure the post is a genuine reflection. But how is posting "I used my own product and it felt really good" anything other than self promotion?

It would be acceptable iff the author prefixed it with Show HN. My suggestion to mods if the post is worth keeping up is to do that.

Re: Using an open model feels surprisingly good

#80

Post by scorpioxy »

Aquitard wrote: post #76
scorpioxy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question if you don't mind. Would you have considered outsourcing the application you mentioned? As in, paying someone else to do it? To me it is great that LLMs are allowing more people to use computers and software the way they were meant to. But the people that are using them this way, in my opinion, wouldn't have commissioned anybody to do it anyway. They'd just live with whatever process/pain they have. So jumpi…

To answer your question probably not unless I knew the person. I could argue the case that I would have outsourced the android UI scope if I was motivated enough to develop it and kept the backend to myself. I could then tinker with the front end and build upon it. However I wouldn't outsource now if I knew the person would just use LLM anyway. I'm the type that would rather build something myself than purchase off t…

Thank you for answering. I agree with you that, if used well, LLMs can be useful tools and increase efficiency. Unfortunately, what I am increasingly seeing is an increase in confidence but no increase in knowledge or understanding. I hope this is just a side-effect of the hype and corresponding bubble and not the future trajectory of knowledge work.
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