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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#881

Post by [deleted] »

teravor wrote: post #16
Grimblewald wrote: post #2

VeraCrypt has a cool function which is a reserved space for a decoy OS.[1] Everything else registers as free space while decrypting to dummy volume. You make the dummy volume look lived in, and forget. provide dummy password, volume decrypts such that only dummy is accessible/readable. give proper password, real OS and FS decrypt and load. Something like this may need to become the standars over duress pins which sho…

this will likely fail as block devices aren't dumb anymore, the firmware state will out the hidden volume. counting on the laziness/unsophistication of an adversary isn't a great move. this problem may be solvable by a purpose-built abstraction where every write no matter what address will look identical to the firmware (naively, a randomized key-value map).

[deleted]

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#883

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

pageandrew wrote: post #867
drop_star wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just don't go to the usa As a Canadian. I won't be going there for a long time

Canadian border control has the legal authority to search your phone and you are obligated to provide a password.

Are you a Canadian lawyer? I did some research and your statement doesn’t hold up.

CBSA policy does state you are obligated to provide your password if they are conducting a lawful device examination, however they cannot do it arbitrarily, and they must have a legal basis for searching the device.

> CBSA policy states that examinations of personal devices should not be conducted as a matter of routine; such searches may be conducted only if there are grounds or indications that “evidence of contraventions may be found on the digital device or media.”

Furthermore, Canadian courts have not yet definitively ruled on whether compelling password disclosure is constitutionally permissible.

This is very different than the US, where CBP can conduct a basic search without any individualized suspicion.

So, Canada and the US are definitely not the same, which seems to be the implied meaning behind your comment, and your explicit statement that CBSA has legal authority to search your phone is, at best, misleading.

I’m not a lawyer or a legal expert so I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me if you have Canadian legal experience.

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/airports-and-border...

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#884

Post by sieabahlpark »

mothballed wrote: post #799
gypsy_boots wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most logical comment in the entire thread. The only thing to say is "I want a lawyer". Although in this case, he repeatedly said that and wasn't given one. Which just shows that the state can do whatever they'd like, even if it's "unconstitutional". They have a monopoly on violence.

I've been thrown in immigration jail as US citizen. They will not provide or allow you access to a lawyer and you won't see a judge to determine if they have PC to hold you. You just sit there until they decide to eject you. Nothing else to be done and no one to contact, plus most of the other prisoners cannot speak English. CBP via a bunch of crazy court cases, basically operates outside constitutional constraints.…

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#885

Post by _fat_santa »

northernsausage wrote: post #354

If this happened in an EU country you'd all be wetting yourselves, but for some reason the rooms different today. The professional advice we are given traveling to the US is back up you phone, wipe it, travel and restore once you are comfortable. Sad state of affairs guys

Another commenter posted the complaint: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/28513012-samuel-tuni...

The terrifying line of this for me is: "before and during the search", namely the "before" part. Even if you wiped your device days before, they could always make the argument that you destroyed evidence back then because you were trying to prevent them from searching your device.

INAL so not sure if this would hold up in court.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#886

Post by ytoawwhra92 »

whats_a_quasar wrote: post #362
ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CBP are empowered to seize devices if the owner refuses a search.

Hmm. It looks like the government asserts that they can seize a device if the owner does not provide a password. This is a good point and answers my search v. seizure objection above. You say CBP is "empowered" to seize a device if the owner refuses to provide a password but I can't find a statute that authorizes it or precedent squarely saying the 4th Amendment allows this. The scope of the border search exception i…

The cost of asserting your 4th amendment right in this situation is that you have to sue the US government after you leave the airport, or invoke the 4th amendment as your defence if they charge you with one or more crimes.

I think most people lack the resources and the wherewithal to do either of those things.

And in the process of asserting your rights you may inadvertently commit a crime for which the 4th amendment isn't a defence.

Like most self-defence, the best option is to avoid the situation entirely.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#887

Post by cindyllm »

ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #886
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. It looks like the government asserts that they can seize a device if the owner does not provide a password. This is a good point and answers my search v. seizure objection above. You say CBP is "empowered" to seize a device if the owner refuses to provide a password but I can't find a statute that authorizes it or precedent squarely saying the 4th Amendment allows this. The scope of the border search exception i…

The cost of asserting your 4th amendment right in this situation is that you have to sue the US government after you leave the airport, or invoke the 4th amendment as your defence if they charge you with one or more crimes. I think most people lack the resources and the wherewithal to do either of those things. And in the process of asserting your rights you may inadvertently commit a crime for which the 4th amendmen…

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#888

Post by itake »

YeahThisIsMe wrote: post #557
itake wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, like what country would you not have to worry about this in? The US is quite transparent about these rules, and certainly other countries are not necessarily searching peoples phones as publicly But anytime I transit a country USA or any thing I fully expect to have zero rights

>But anytime I transit a country USA or any thing I fully expect to have zero rights That is so sad, man. How is this normal for you?

Its just how the world works. Countries protect their own citizens, even from each other.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#889

Post by u8080 »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #685
mapt wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one does. Why, six of the eleven times I've had my car stolen, it was a carjacking with myself or my family member in it.

Six of the eleven times... Crazy. What city was this, if you don't mind me asking?

San Andreas?

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#890

Post by itake »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #554
itake wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, like what country would you not have to worry about this in? The US is quite transparent about these rules, and certainly other countries are not necessarily searching peoples phones as publicly But anytime I transit a country USA or any thing I fully expect to have zero rights

Schengen, Nordics, Japan, Canada, in that order. Trump’s America: when confronted with negative traits of your country, always assume your country is the lesser of all evils.

Schengen (and Nordic countries) logs your biometrics and can search your electronics [0] when you enter the region.

Canada searches electronics [1].

Japan Article 105 (Inspection, Search, and Seizure) of the Japan Customs Act (Kanzeihō) allows electronic searches.

It’s strange how much criticism America gets, yet when people are confronted with problems in their own countries, the response is often, “Donald Trump bad. American stupid for voting for him.” The U.S. was surveilling phones long before Trump became president, and the practice certainly continued under Biden.

[0] - https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/13xzqyw/can_german...

[1] - https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/edd-ean-eng.html

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