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Our position on open-weights models

anthropic.com

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Re: Our position on open-weights models

#171
post #38

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I can understand why the Western media calls something that has an official name of CPC (the Communist Party of China) as CCP (Chinese Communist Party? Not sure here). What puzzles me is - why ordinary people always repeat this wrong abbreviation. Is it like “I never check the sources, I trust everything that Western media publishes”?

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Re: Our position on open-weights models

#172
To everyone here pushing for total proliferation of open models -- what should be done about open weight bioweapon and cyber-offense capabilities? Is it simply the cost of freedom that we should allow attackers to access these tools? The OpenAI / Hugging Face incident shows what a GPT 5.6 level model can do off the leash; within ~6 months, open weight models will match this and every bad actor under the sun will be able to pull off attacks at this scale. Do you seriously want this level of capabilities to be generally available with no guardrails?

The open weight issue has a lot of difficult nuance. Biasing toward supporting openness makes sense and is a good instinct, but it's incredibly naive to be absolutely in favor of it in every circumstance without seriously thinking about its implications.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#173
The gap between China's chip manufacturing capabilities and the USA's is only going to shrink, right? ASML obeys some export controls for their most sophisticated machines, but those machines are in China's backyard (Taiwan).

Taiwan manufactures the world's most advanced chips. CCP wants "re-unification" with Taiwan. AI may be THE key to world dominance. These are scary times.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#174
Basically we shouldn’t ban open-weights models but we shouldn’t allow them to become as good as the frontier models because china bad. And let’s not have someone else be able to produce a frontier model.

>We should not sell powerful chips or chipmaking equipment to China, and we should crack down on the rampant smuggling3 and workarounds used to obtain access to such chips. China has limited domestic production capacity, and therefore, due to the scaling laws, cannot build more powerful models than the US without US chips. This is the most efficient and direct way to block threat #1, and by hampering the training of models that are out of reach of US law, it also indirectly helps with threat #

We should crack down on industrial-scale distillation operations. Distillation is a much more compute-efficient process than training models from scratch. It allows China to build much better models than its number of chips would ordinarily enable, and thus partially evade chip bans. Distillation does not allow the CCP to obtain equivalent or superior AI capabilities to the US, but it can bring the Chinese frontier to within a few months of the US frontier

2.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#175

You can put lipstick on a pig, it'll still be a pig "Anthropic has never advocated for a ban on open-weights models." --- "We should crack down on industrial-scale distillation operations" "All sufficiently capable models, open and closed, should go through mandatory safety testing" These are in tension with advocating for open weight models. Not direct but enough that it calls into question the first statement. What…

I don't really understand how they can argue the security angle with a straight face. It's not like GLM 5.2 is a slouch. I've seen it do things like exploit an IDOR issue when I was experimenting with a quick-and-dirty web automation task. I simply fixed it, as one does. Open models make the world better to a far greater degree than they set it aflame.

Their position is analogous to trying to, say, ensure digital privacy for everyone not by making encryption freely available (because that would let the bad guys use it!), but by making it so you can't use general purpose communications devices that can listen to transmissions not intended for you. Do they hear how moronic that sounds?

Each passing frontier-level open model release makes Anthropic's patronizing rhetoric a little more insufferable, because it becomes clearer how unmoored from reality they've become in pursuit of profit.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#176

> Anthropic has never advocated for a ban on open-weights models. > All sufficiently capable models, open and closed, should go through mandatory safety testing. Yeah, this is anthropic advocating for a ban on open weight models. Who runs this test? What happens if this test is too costly or the administrator refuses to allow certain people to participate. This is exactly how the US has banned goods in the past, by r…

A government agency tests all medications, why not models?

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#177
post #27

Guys. Guys, you got it all wrong. We don't want to ban open-weight models! We just want to ban the competition guys! Very different. -- The ridiculous anthropic/openai strategy of selling shovels at a loss in a gold rush isn't going to play out, and the hilarious thing is that these AI companies are going to create tons of value and _capture none of it_. Their only path to profitability is if they get to capture it a…

The genie is out of the bottle. Anthropic and OpenAI have been trading mirrors for gold, and people started to realize what a mirror actually is.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#178
A bit off-topic from the core of the post, but:

> At Anthropic we’re committed to cracking down on industrial-scale distillation through our own practices, including identifying and banning accounts that use our models in this way. This is challenging—for instance, the relevant accounts can often only be identified after substantial distillation has occurred, and distillation often involves creating large numbers of fake accounts that form a moving target. The practices of any individual company cannot entirely solve the problem, which is why we have called for policy on this issue.

One thing I've never really understood is what sort of policy could possibly deter or hamper Chinese labs' distillation efforts. The only thing I can imagine is some sort of strict KYC regulation applied to all models above a certain threshold, which seems both painful for the broader US AI ecosystem and bound to fail anyways.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#179

In the first paragraph, > Anyone who has read my past writing should know that I don’t regard such bans as a useful measure, Later (on banning chip sales to china) > we should crack down on the rampant smuggling and workarounds used to obtain access to such chips. If you truly believe that bans don't work, the same applies to hardware too. Furthermore, Dario says later "To address these concerns, I do support the fol…

TL;DR: We like money, and Anthropic should stay in a position to make loads of it despite any competition.

Re: Our position on open-weights models

#180
Distillation has to be way more energy efficient and beneficial for the planet. But if they can figure out a way to ban it, go ahead, that’s not a regulation problem, it’s an Anthropic problem.

The danger of an authoritarian government having some AI is muted by everyone else having that same capable open model. The only authoritarians to fear are those that keep models private. What kind of chance did Estonia have it having their own AI model at the level of Fable without China donating Kimi to the world?

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