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Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

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Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#61

Post by Waterluvian »

munk-a wrote: post #55
Waterluvian wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried both and it’s not even close which interface is better when it comes to answering a question. Google gives you stuff to sift through and interpret. AI just gives the answer. Imagine you’re in the car or hands free or disabled and you just want the question answered. https://ibb.co/whYmZWxs https://ibb.co/JFkQbmJf

AI just gives the answer... which you then need to sift through and interpret as it's often wrong. Google's UX is terrible - but a search engine (a tool that can put you right into contact with the FAQ or forum where actual experts are discussing your problem) is always going to be powerful.

For sure. But a search engine the way we both probably agree is powerful is not Google's business. Google wants to own the interface level where everyday users come with questions/needing things and Google owns that experience. And that part is dying very quickly.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#62

Post by impossiblefork »

asdefghyk wrote: post #34
Terr_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to imagine how the world would be different, if internet advertising giants were partially liable for scams/malware that they facilitate.

I recall a articale I read "somewhere" that reported the Facebook makes big profit (Billions) from scams. So they have no ( or no strong motive) motive to shut such scams down An example is courtcase against Meta for using a Australians mining billionares likeness to promote a crypo investment scam. https://www.afr.com/technology/dad-it-s-a-fraud-call-that-sp...

This is actually illegal here in Sweden though. Lawsuits are ongoing.

I'm kind of surprised that there haven't been criminal cases.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#63

Post by Waterluvian »

devin wrote: post #50
Waterluvian wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried both and it’s not even close which interface is better when it comes to answering a question. Google gives you stuff to sift through and interpret. AI just gives the answer. Imagine you’re in the car or hands free or disabled and you just want the question answered. https://ibb.co/whYmZWxs https://ibb.co/JFkQbmJf

"just gives you the answer" is a problem when it is offered without context, sourcing, etc. Such is the case for people trying to poison--ahem "influence" LLM results for "what is the best restaurant in $my_locale". You're playing a dangerous game.

> is a problem when it is offered without context, sourcing, etc.

Sure. But that's not what's happening here, yeah? Both examples are providing sources. Actually I'd say that the LLM is doing a better job at that. You click a button and see 9 URLs to 9 news sites.

I think for the "influence LLM results" fears, it would be ridiculous to argue about which multi-billion dollar American company can be trusted more not to manipulate you.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#64

Post by dataflow »

akrymski wrote: post #41

EU protects a database creator if there has been a qualitative or quantitative "substantial investment" in obtaining, verifying, or presenting the content, regardless of creative expression. In USA copyright requires a minimum degree of original creativity in the selection, coordination, or arrangement of the data. I think it's a rather grey line to say that Google search results are just facts, but eg maps are copyr…

> I think it's a rather grey line to say that Google search results are just facts, but eg maps are copyrightable.

I don't think a map is a good example. A picture is probably a better one. A map, by its very definition, is not a replica of any part of the original artifact. Not merely because a map is not the territory, but also because it's not even a direct, unaltered view of the thing. There is clearly some creativity required in putting together a map, since it requires you to decide what to include, what to leave out, what to exaggerate, what to distort, etc... as evidenced by maps of the same area looking vastly different.

By contrast, search engine results are stitchings of various pieces of the text on the page, verbatim. How much creativity that embidies is probably akin to that within a photo.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#65

Post by janalsncm »

Waterluvian wrote: post #43
janalsncm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, go ahead and ask the LLM who won the 2026 World Cup. Or nearby BBQ places open now. Even assuming no hallucinations, an LLM can replace some use cases for search but not all.

I tried both and it’s not even close which interface is better when it comes to answering a question. Google gives you stuff to sift through and interpret. AI just gives the answer. Imagine you’re in the car or hands free or disabled and you just want the question answered. https://ibb.co/whYmZWxs https://ibb.co/JFkQbmJf

The first of the two steps is a web search. The model didn’t answer from its trained weights.

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#67

Post by echelon »

layer8 wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has no moat anymore. - Google search is on the way out. I don't know any of my peers who use it anymore. - Coding models make doing extreme depth of work possible. - Hoards of unemployed engineers now have access to 10x coding utilities and are looking for things to do. They will start clawing away at Google products. - Just the other day, someone cloned Google Gsuite and it looked awesome - Drive and Search w…

Google’s moat is that websites aren’t blocking their crawler.

The once unthinkable is now changing.

https://nypost.com/2026/07/22/business/reddit-news-outlets-w...

https://www.wsj.com/business/media/google-search-publishers-...

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#68

Post by munk-a »

Waterluvian wrote: post #61
munk-a wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI just gives the answer... which you then need to sift through and interpret as it's often wrong. Google's UX is terrible - but a search engine (a tool that can put you right into contact with the FAQ or forum where actual experts are discussing your problem) is always going to be powerful.

For sure. But a search engine the way we both probably agree is powerful is not Google's business. Google wants to own the interface level where everyday users come with questions/needing things and Google owns that experience. And that part is dying very quickly.

Oh, I definitely agree that Google squandered their golden goose. Had they treated search as an independent business and not a piggy bank they'd be in a much better position. An independent business would still likely fall prey to gradual enshittification but the sheer lack of investment into improving the platform while also worsening the UX has opened up the door. They likely felt quite empowered after Bing crashed and burned but weren't prepared for competitors who had QoL features and weren't backed by the biggest boogieman in tech (at the time at least).

Re: Judge Rejects Google's Attempt to DMCA Its Way Out of Being Scraped

#69

Post by izacus »

Terr_ wrote: post #25
jonatron wrote: post #6

It's quite important that SERPs are scrapeable, because they keep advertising scams like ETA/ESTA sites: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56886957

It's interesting to imagine how the world would be different, if internet advertising giants were partially liable for scams/malware that they facilitate.

Imagine how world would be different if the actual scammers and malware creators would be prosecuted and not insteead demanded that internet giants play a privatized police force.
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