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Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

cen.acs.org

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Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#61

Post by danbruc »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #59
danbruc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superglue is probably two order of magnitude stronger, so I doubt that this will replace cyanoacrylates. And while ethanol or hand sanitizer will not help much with superglue, acetone or nail polish remover will remove it. Then again, acetone will attack more materials then ethanol, so a glue that can be removed with ethanol might still be beneficial.

Also… Uncure is a popular brand of cyanoacrylate remover. This is already a solved problem it seems.

Never heard that name, but according to their safety data sheet [1] it is 95+ % dimethylformamide [2]. Not too different from acetone, with a additional dimethylamin group. Acetone-free nail polish remover usually contains primarily ethyl acetate [3] which is also structurally similar.

[1] https://bsi-inc.com/sds_pdf/sds_un_cure.pdf

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylformamide

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#62

Post by galangalalgol »

culi wrote: post #54
pastage wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

delete EDIT 2: I think they are non-toxic and inert. But I tried to find my source for this and I am failing badly. so deleting this comment EDIT: I agree they are very waste full since they do not live that long. I have owned three non-stick pans, my cast iron pans have outlived all of them by decades.

Non-stick pans are fine if they are never heated above 500°F (260°C) and never scratched. In general, you probably shouldn't regularly use a nonstick pan for longer than 2 years. If it is scratched or heated above what it says on the label, then yes it is absolutely toxic.

Why is scratched a problem? They use the same stuff in medical implants. It is chemically inert if you don't overheat it right?

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#63

Post by qmr »

culi wrote: post #54
pastage wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

delete EDIT 2: I think they are non-toxic and inert. But I tried to find my source for this and I am failing badly. so deleting this comment EDIT: I agree they are very waste full since they do not live that long. I have owned three non-stick pans, my cast iron pans have outlived all of them by decades.

Non-stick pans are fine if they are never heated above 500°F (260°C) and never scratched. In general, you probably shouldn't regularly use a nonstick pan for longer than 2 years. If it is scratched or heated above what it says on the label, then yes it is absolutely toxic.

... or just avoid the risk entirely.

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#64

Post by quickthrowman »

cogman10 wrote: post #55
pastage wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

delete EDIT 2: I think they are non-toxic and inert. But I tried to find my source for this and I am failing badly. so deleting this comment EDIT: I agree they are very waste full since they do not live that long. I have owned three non-stick pans, my cast iron pans have outlived all of them by decades.

PFAS (which is what makes nonstick nonstick) have tentative links to several cancers [1] [1] https://dceg.cancer.gov/research/what-we-study/pfas

PTFE is perfectly safe as long as you don’t get it too hot. So, not the best material for non-stick pans.

The thread tape on all non-compression screw-type plumbing fittings is made of PTFE, and so is Gore-Tex.

I’m well aware of the danger of PFAS, my local watershed is contaminated with it from a 3M plant.

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#65

Post by ssl-3 »

murderfs wrote: post #20

> “Since ethanol is the main component of hand sanitizer, we believe it is possible to de-bond and recycle the adhesive by using hand sanitizer as a substitute in certain real-world situations,” Aida says. These sorts of environmental impact blurbs are hilarious. What kind of scenario are they envisioning where someone wants to remove and reuse a specialized adhesive bonding PTFE parts to something, but don't have et…

I can think of a few things that relate, as someone who is more in the business of taking random things apart for repair than building them new:

In the mysterious future, I might have a widget that needs to be disassembled which uses this glue.

And I'm at the shop right now; as I look around the bench, I don't see any industrial products that are primarily ethanol. It's just not something we typically have a use for.

But there is a giant pump-bottle of hand sanitizer that is still right there by the doorway as a holdover from the COVID days. So if this adhesive ever begins to show up in products, and if hand sanitizer is Good Enough, then I'll be using that.

It saves a trip to the hardware store for gallon-sized can of "denatured alcohol" (which is typically very heavy with methanol at an unspecified ratio), and it avoids questions about buying/having a bottle of Everclear from the liquor store.

I think it's worthwhile to mention the possibility of using hand sanitizer for this purpose.

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#66

Post by ssl-3 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #62
culi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-stick pans are fine if they are never heated above 500°F (260°C) and never scratched. In general, you probably shouldn't regularly use a nonstick pan for longer than 2 years. If it is scratched or heated above what it says on the label, then yes it is absolutely toxic.

Why is scratched a problem? They use the same stuff in medical implants. It is chemically inert if you don't overheat it right?

PTFE is very inert, but that doesn't mean that I want to eat more of it than I have to. And as a practical matter: Once it begins flaking off, more tends to follow. I don't know if that's because of oxidation of the aluminum, or what, but it sure seems to behave that way.

I mean, I'm not too awful worried about it compared to my adventures in 3D printing (with its crusty PTFE Bowden tubes).

But I very deliberately have just exactly one Teflon-coated pan in my house, and it only gets used for exactly one purpose: Making scrambled eggs with a rubber spatula. (I like my eggs scrambled sometimes, and I'm not pro-enough to make it work with cast iron or stainless cookware.)

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#68

Post by throwway120385 »

quickthrowman wrote: post #64
cogman10 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PFAS (which is what makes nonstick nonstick) have tentative links to several cancers [1] [1] https://dceg.cancer.gov/research/what-we-study/pfas

PTFE is perfectly safe as long as you don’t get it too hot. So, not the best material for non-stick pans. The thread tape on all non-compression screw-type plumbing fittings is made of PTFE, and so is Gore-Tex. I’m well aware of the danger of PFAS, my local watershed is contaminated with it from a 3M plant.

You can use pipe dope instead of PTFE if you want. It's just more expensive.

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#69

Post by PakG1 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #62
culi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-stick pans are fine if they are never heated above 500°F (260°C) and never scratched. In general, you probably shouldn't regularly use a nonstick pan for longer than 2 years. If it is scratched or heated above what it says on the label, then yes it is absolutely toxic.

Why is scratched a problem? They use the same stuff in medical implants. It is chemically inert if you don't overheat it right?

Isn't that the problem? From what I am googling right now, the maximum tempreature of my stove is absolutely above the threshold where it stops being chemically inert. If we were talking about some usage that didn't involve heating, then I guess maybe I'd hear out a usage for it, but even then, not sure the benefits are worth having something that can't degrade and yet can potentially get ingested by my body.

Re: Glue bonds to nonstick surfaces and wipes clean with ethanol

#70

Post by pumnikol »

baxuz wrote: post #8

This might be very useful for bonding PTFE and aluminium on cookware if it ends up being food safe.

I really don't know about food safe. Or safe for any end consumer, really. They absolutely need to do some severe toxicity testing. Because this funny new glue is an organic phosphate which in itself already raises some serious questions. On top of that, the ring also contains two perfluoropinacol moieties which could be released e.g. on heating or through interaction with acids or something else. This is a highly volatile molecule and "fatal in contact with skin," i.e. of the highest toxicity class. That ain't no good.
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