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The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

harpguitars.net

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Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#31

Post by BigTTYGothGF »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #18
bluGill wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are those who say it isn't a chord until you have 3 notes. I'm going to skip the complex music theory behind the arguments (I haven't studied them enough to understand much less form an opinion). Of course in most music contexts there is more than one instrument playing and so the others can fill in the missing note making a full chord. Only a "one-man-band" really feels the loss.

Power chords only have two notes (although more than two octaves, I don't know if you count that)

"Power chord" sounds cooler than "power dyad".

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#32

Post by anentropic »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #19
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whimpy-ass chords. You need three or more notes for a serious(tm) chord.

Five for the Hendrix Chord, E7♯9 ;-) That's E, G♯, B, D, F

I read a pretty good argument once that this chord should really be called a b10 (no one does though...)

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#33

Post by anentropic »

analog31 wrote: post #5
jagged-chisel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why frets? Orchestral strings don’t use frets.

Frets make chords possible. You only have to put your finger somewhere in between two frets to get a particular note, so you can play more than the tiny handful of chords that can be played on something like a violin. There are non-fretted guitars but they are rare, and I think early banjos were not fretted.

Isn't it the curvature of the fretboard (to allow for bowing individual strings) that prevents chords on a violin rather than lack of frets?

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#34

Post by lebuffon »

anentropic wrote: post #33
analog31 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frets make chords possible. You only have to put your finger somewhere in between two frets to get a particular note, so you can play more than the tiny handful of chords that can be played on something like a violin. There are non-fretted guitars but they are rare, and I think early banjos were not fretted.

Isn't it the curvature of the fretboard (to allow for bowing individual strings) that prevents chords on a violin rather than lack of frets?

I can play chords on a violin or viola and strum them. Keeping a four-finger chord perfectly in tune in rapid changes is really hard (near impossible) without frets.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#35

Post by timdellinger »

dhosek wrote: post #28

I’m a bit skeptical of the claims given that multi-course tunings are almost as old as guitar-family instruments.

agreed - America went through a "mandolin mania" in ~1880s, and even in the 1900s and 1910s, the guitar was by no means an established instrument.

As a matter of fact, the "tenor guitar" was made for people who knew how to play the very popular four string banjo, but wanted to play a guitar without learning new chords.

Instruments were in a state of change, and the "harp" nomenclature (and styling) for a 12-string guitar was more a marketing flourish than a family lineage.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#36

Post by lebuffon »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #13
jagged-chisel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why frets? Orchestral strings don’t use frets.

What's the difference in sustain time between a cello played pizzicato and a plucked guitar string?

On fingered strings the guitar sustains for about 10 seconds until the note is very quiet, but still ringing.

On a Cello a fingered string is gone in 2 seconds.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#37

Post by AlecSchueler »

swiftcoder wrote: post #24
defrost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit spotty, but alright; meanwhile the Italian instrument makers said guitar-harp? Hold our expressos, this'll take some discipline: * https://www.delta-harp.com/ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdUztFVwi3I

Never having played a harp, whats the advantage here (beyond cool factor) over an equivalent electric guitar?

A harp can have more than 6 notes ringing out at a time. It's also a different instrument and if you've trained to play harp then a guitar is useless for you.

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#38

Post by ofalkaed »

dhosek wrote: post #28

I’m a bit skeptical of the claims given that multi-course tunings are almost as old as guitar-family instruments.

>almost as old as guitar-family instruments.

They are as old as we can trace it back, vihuela/viola de mano were multi-course, as was the baroque guitar which developed from them. The romantic guitar brought us single string courses and in the guitar family double courses died out other than in a few nooks and crannies. I don't think this has any effect on what TFA proposes and the author is well aware of this bit of information, but it has been years since I read it and maybe I am forgetting something?

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#39

Post by ofalkaed »

pluc wrote: post #2

12 strings is one thing, but how about microtonal? That's instead of adding strings, you add frets! If you haven't heard them yet, you're in for a wild ride: https://www.youtube.com/@AnginePoitrine

In the early days of the guitar it had tied gut frets, it was microtonal by nature and you could move the frets for different temperaments. Then in the 19th century things changed and the guitar got fixed metal frets, ever since people have been trying to figure out how to have the benefits of both. 1852 is the first attempt that I know of.

https://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/search.asp...

Re: The Birth of the American 12-string Guitar (2013)

#40

Post by dahart »

dhosek wrote: post #28

I’m a bit skeptical of the claims given that multi-course tunings are almost as old as guitar-family instruments.

Multi-course ouds and lutes of course predate anything resembling the modern guitar by a long, long way. Do you consider those in the “guitar family”? If so, I’d refer to the group as oud or lute family. Guitar family is a recent subset of lute family, and doesn’t even contain the first multi-course instruments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Guitar_family_instrum...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lute-family_instrum...

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