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Canceling "Hey"

chadnauseam.com

121–130 of 311 posts

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#121
One of the many holes in DHH's claim about wolves, sheep, and gypsies is that wolves are not the sort of low-dimensional archetype he uses to support his narrative.

If you're very literal like me, you take that to mean wolves, the mammal; a predatory animal living within a food web, fulfilling a particular role at its trophic level which is ultimately beneficial to the system it's a part of.

Wolves don't independently get 'out of control' such that they need to be shot. This has been demonstrated across North America and Europe. The perception of wolves being out of control is largely subjective and misguided, and the result of 1. humans encroaching on wild land, 2. human activity limiting wolves' access to food, and 3. humans fearing wolves and wanting there to be fewer of them.

Through this lens, comparing immigrants to wolves is absurd. It becomes clear that DHH is discarding a lot of context in order to weave a fearful narrative which uses invalid, fictional mechanisms to make his point.

The use of the terms gypsies and sheep also comes with issues. It's a poor piece of writing, lacks any compelling substance (assuming you aren't swayed by him), and largely demonstrates that he's not particularly thoughtful about this while lacking the self-awareness and comprehension to notice how weak his position is.

It's okay to want reduced immigration. It's okay to want to preserve certain things in your society. It's not necessary or reasonable to do so through this lens, however. There are plenty of compelling arguments to make for regulating these systems in local, regional, and national government. It's okay to want that. When you start describing immigrants as dangerous animals, you've gone many steps too far off of a sensible path.

I also understand the use of fables to communicate moral and ethical stories, which seems to be a component in his narrative. However, he steps out of that bound when he talks about literal wolves (and the need to shoot them). Yet fables are a coarse tool, not an intricate one, and they're far too reductive to support an argument against immigration across a continent. It's an absurd position to argue from, and in terms of narrative, it makes DHH seem either obtuse or very hateful and disingenuous. I've never read anything of his since this piece.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#123
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the content of the post, it seems like it would be adequate to find an email platform run by people not vocally calling for the ethnic cleansing of minorities.

He is calling for the deportation of illegal immigrants who sleep in parks. Cloudflare, in contrast, actively works with the CCP which is doing actual ethnic cleansing in Tibet and Xinjiang. But they are harder to cancel aren’t they. I’m a pragmatist. I’m not going to drive myself crazy interrogating the opinions of every service provider I use. I don’t know about the Fastmail founder or CEO’s beliefs and don’t want…

I think this is a false equivalence. Cloudflare doesn't espouse the position that ethnic cleaning is good, and afaik nothing it does in China enables that.

Further, DHH isn't calling for the deportation of illegal immigrants in parks. He's calling for the deportation of all people tagged with a specific label with no discrimination. The blog post talks about exactly that difference.

I agree that we live in an ecosystem where, in some industries, all options are terrible. That doesn't mean that, among those bad options, you can't exercise discernment and good judgment. I'm similarly a pragmatist from a different angle - I do believe the marginal dollar value I add to a company's bottom line doesn't change much of anything, and that voting with your wallet only works with collective action to be more than theater - but I also think that makes OP's conscientiousness admirable. Pragmatism isn't apathy or agnosticism, and shouldn't be conflated as such.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#124
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homelessness is pretty race neutral tho? Especially in Oakland, which is incredibly race-balanced.

absolutely not, especially in the bay – people of color are way more likely to be homeless

The way you've stated this implies a structurally-enforced causality with regards to vagrancy in such a way that, wittingly or otherwise, wholly denies the possibility of individual agency in the very people you're ostensibly trying to defend.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#125

I do find the author position to be incoherent in the following regard: 1. believe a statement can be true or false, and false should be called out. 2. believe deportation is morally wrong in certain cases, that is, the law can be selectively broken. I personally believe laws should always be enforced and followed. That eliminates margin for corruption and lenience. A strong law also creates incentive for the populat…

> believe deportation is morally wrong in certain cases, that is, the law can be selectively broken. Except that that author didn't say that at all. They said "deport only the lawbreakers", while expressing dismay at a blogpost which (apparently*) said "deport everyone". > I personally believe laws should always be enforced and followed. Quote from TFA: "Any kind of mass deportation plan would have to change [the law…

To establish oneself in a country (for the majority if not all the western world) without an appropriate visa is already breaking the law.

Not saying this is the only way, or what should be - but it's what it is, selectively breaking the law is ok - "as long as they behave". It implies that immigrants must live in the limbo and under undue psychological pressure, knowing one day their whole life may be uprooted for any transgression (or even none). This to me is some medieval mindset.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#126

I was really wanting to read this, I had a morbid interest in Hey.com's cancellation policy. After 3+ paragraphs and an effin PG quote, there still is no point. There once were angry submissions (or comments?) here about how hard it is to cancel NYT. I was expecting the Hey-version of that, instead I got long-winded prose that sounds like a bunch of college boys trying to sound smart. No thanks. I guess the E-mail-se…

[deleted]

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#127
post #33

[flagged]

Where is the shouting and shaming in the blog post?

This blog post is an exercise in publicly shaming Hey/DHH for their blog post.

Which is fine. But there is significant hypocrisy in presenting as though you aren't doing exactly that.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#128
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the shouting and shaming in the blog post?

...thats his point. He doesn't want to shout and shame. So he wrote a blog post. "Hence" means, "therefore", as in "I didn't want to shout and shame, therefore I wrote this blog post"

No, I'm pointing out the author's hypocrisy.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#130
post #2

the discussed blogpost https://world.hey.com/dhh/wolves-sheep-and-gypsies-ba44af6a

This is slightly less awful than what I imagined but still enough that I would never want to do do business with any company run by DHH anymore.

Granted, I already have a dim view of Ruby and Ruby on Rails, and have never used any of DHH's software products, so my comment is a moral denouncement that carries no weight. Still, the dog whistling in this blog post is so loud I hear barking from the next door down. I don't exactly have on-the-ground knowledge of the exact situation in Copenhagen, but even just from what DHH describes, I'm pretty sure the solution can be solved through means less invasive than deporting homeless people.

And just to be clear, I'm using the phrase "homeless people" rather than Europe's N-word because the problem is not where the people came from. Unless you want to pretend like Danish-born homeless are somehow way better, which would be a level of propagandistic bullshittery I don't even think Trump would stoop to. I also shouldn't have to explain why the actions to fix homelessness should not be identical or even analogous to the actions taken to manage an invasive wolf population.

There is an actual problem DHH is vaguely grasping at: western countries have an exceptionally low state capacity despite their status on the world stage. The West is run by people who believe their job is to merely manage the decline of their terminally-ill trade empires until the pieces get inevitably packaged up and sold to ancap-esque autocrats of trade. And the social and economic structures undergirding the west, especially in Europe, have ossified to the point where there is not only no place for immigrants of any stripe, but even our own young can't fit in.

But the answer to this problem that always gets attention is the people who want to burn that remaining state capacity on incredibly vengeful, petty, and stupid acts of bullying. "I don't care how poor I am as long as I have someone else's neck below my boot" is just a recipe for mass impoverishment.

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